Kenny Speed
I am using VDJ8 with a Reloop Touch.
Today I had a problem as follows.
I was playing an old song from the 70's, I was playing the kick sample underneath to reinforce the beat.
This was ok until maybe 2 3rds of the way through when the timing of the beat in the song, had varied enough that it wasn't the same as the beat markers under the rhythm waves. The sampler kick drum was playing in time with the beat markers but the actual beat of the song was now off the beat. How do I fix this so that the beat markers equal the song beats, even though the song goes slightly out of time as it progresses?
Thanks,
Ken.
Today I had a problem as follows.
I was playing an old song from the 70's, I was playing the kick sample underneath to reinforce the beat.
This was ok until maybe 2 3rds of the way through when the timing of the beat in the song, had varied enough that it wasn't the same as the beat markers under the rhythm waves. The sampler kick drum was playing in time with the beat markers but the actual beat of the song was now off the beat. How do I fix this so that the beat markers equal the song beats, even though the song goes slightly out of time as it progresses?
Thanks,
Ken.
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 8:02 am
Adion
You can use the bpm editor:
https://www.virtualdj.com/manuals/virtualdj8/editors/bpmeditor.html
Depending on the song, you can try the option-button there as a start and select 'multi-bpm' analysis, but you may need to do some manual adjustments as well after that.
https://www.virtualdj.com/manuals/virtualdj8/editors/bpmeditor.html
Depending on the song, you can try the option-button there as a start and select 'multi-bpm' analysis, but you may need to do some manual adjustments as well after that.
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 8:11 am
groovindj
....or just run the old track through Ableton Live, which will 'warp' it for you (straighten out the tempo). Save the corrected file, then every time you play it in VDJ the tempo will be rock solid.
For some years now, people here have been asking for this feature in VDJ, but it has yet to materialise - in any DJ software.
What song was it, out of interest? It could be that the reason is more complex (change of time signature etc).
For some years now, people here have been asking for this feature in VDJ, but it has yet to materialise - in any DJ software.
What song was it, out of interest? It could be that the reason is more complex (change of time signature etc).
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 8:36 am
Kenny Speed
Thanks guys I had just found the instruction in the manual as advised by Adion, and come back here to report as such.
Interesting about Ableton Live, I don't have that software but have Realband, FL Studio, & Studio One. I will check them out to see if they offer the same function. Thanks again for the quick replies.
Interesting about Ableton Live, I don't have that software but have Realband, FL Studio, & Studio One. I will check them out to see if they offer the same function. Thanks again for the quick replies.
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 9:07 am
Kenny Speed
Sorry groovindj I forgot to say what song it was. It was Hit me with your rhythm stick by Ian Dury & the Blockheads.
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 9:27 am
groovindj
Some DAW software does offer a similar function (i.e. Cubase) but Ableton's software is the one most associated with the process, probably because IME it's the easiest to use.
[later] Just found an iPhone app that measures real time BPM and creates a graph...
The tempo wobbles around a little bit but is roughly 104.
@Adion why can't we have something like this in VDJ?
[later] Just found an iPhone app that measures real time BPM and creates a graph...
The tempo wobbles around a little bit but is roughly 104.
@Adion why can't we have something like this in VDJ?
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 9:30 am
mp3jrick
This is exactly my one and only beef.
What is needed is a "Quantize" feature like my Pioneer RMX has.
It monitors the tempo and is correcting as the song progresses, it even corrects during transition tracks.
The second its off, the bpm starts to blink until its corrected.
One thing for sure, you can't lay out a CBG pattern over a 3 minute track, especially a live track, and with all of the features anchored to the CBG pattern will double dribble your sample or effect consistently.
I've seen the drift go out of sync and then come back, but a steady 4 4 pattern over the whole track just isn't realistic unless its a electronic tempo club track.
To have to edit or use 3rd party software just shouldn't be required.
You can't get halfway through the track and have to tap to align for use with a sample or effect, it either changes the whole alignment on the track or changes the bpm which then means re scanning to mix into it on beat.
The CBGs need to float and monitor the tempo.
This software is so refined now, its a shame that this problem can't be solved.
Seems I've been beating this horse for years, but seriously lets fix this.
What is needed is a "Quantize" feature like my Pioneer RMX has.
It monitors the tempo and is correcting as the song progresses, it even corrects during transition tracks.
The second its off, the bpm starts to blink until its corrected.
One thing for sure, you can't lay out a CBG pattern over a 3 minute track, especially a live track, and with all of the features anchored to the CBG pattern will double dribble your sample or effect consistently.
I've seen the drift go out of sync and then come back, but a steady 4 4 pattern over the whole track just isn't realistic unless its a electronic tempo club track.
To have to edit or use 3rd party software just shouldn't be required.
You can't get halfway through the track and have to tap to align for use with a sample or effect, it either changes the whole alignment on the track or changes the bpm which then means re scanning to mix into it on beat.
The CBGs need to float and monitor the tempo.
This software is so refined now, its a shame that this problem can't be solved.
Seems I've been beating this horse for years, but seriously lets fix this.
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 1:19 pm
kradcliffe
Totally agree Rick. Atomix always add loads of extras to VDJ that very few people will ever use, but miss out on basic things like this that all Djs could get a benefit from.
I have also asked for a "live" BPM readout for disco tracks but that has never been implemented either.
Saying that there haven't been any major updates for a while now so something like this could be going on in the background. Let's hope so.
I have also asked for a "live" BPM readout for disco tracks but that has never been implemented either.
Saying that there haven't been any major updates for a while now so something like this could be going on in the background. Let's hope so.
Mensajes Sat 09 Dec 17 @ 2:51 pm
Kenny Speed
I spent half the day trying to fix the file with my other DAW's, but no success. Although they all have some representation of timestretching.
Then I tried sorting it with the BPM editor in VDJ, which was pretty quick and easy. I then tried another 70's song Golden Earring's Radar Love. What a shocker. Timing is so bad in that one I threw it in the too hard basket. Be interested to know how Ableton handles it.
Then I tried sorting it with the BPM editor in VDJ, which was pretty quick and easy. I then tried another 70's song Golden Earring's Radar Love. What a shocker. Timing is so bad in that one I threw it in the too hard basket. Be interested to know how Ableton handles it.
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 4:10 am
groovindj
Funny - I was going to do Radar Love for locodog (forum regular). Maybe it's time...
The thing with the BPM editor in VDJ (and pretty much any other DJ s/w) is that it doesn't actually correct the track. It just "uncorrects" the beat grid so that it follows the bad timing. Ableton Live does it the proper way. :-)
The thing with the BPM editor in VDJ (and pretty much any other DJ s/w) is that it doesn't actually correct the track. It just "uncorrects" the beat grid so that it follows the bad timing. Ableton Live does it the proper way. :-)
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 8:20 am
Kenny Speed
Yeah, I'd be keen to have a copy of Radar Love that you have corrected with Ableton, groovindj.
That way I'd have a good bench mark to compare with other attempts.
That way I'd have a good bench mark to compare with other attempts.
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 8:42 am
groovindj
Here's what Radar Love looks like on the graph...
One big jump in the middle section.
I'm wondering if dropping that section back down to the 'main' tempo will impact on the feel. Might stand out like a sore thumb.
One big jump in the middle section.
I'm wondering if dropping that section back down to the 'main' tempo will impact on the feel. Might stand out like a sore thumb.
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 9:04 am
LDJMax
maybe a pitch slider for samples will help
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 10:31 am
mp3jrick
Scotts Freestyler plug in sends the audio midi out to trigger the scene changes in FS.
Maybe using that same principle as an effect engine would work.
The other thing that I have suggested is anchoring to the snare.
No matter what the base line does, the snare is nearly always following a steady 4 4 tempo.
We seemed to have misunderstood the meaning of a colored wave form also.
A base kick should be red, and a snare tick should be white.
I cue up with phones, but time my 32 intro mixes.
When I get to 32, a quick glance and I can see if its still tight.
This can't be done even with the extra grid lines wave feature except to show you how really far off it is.
It gets a little much to be using audio and video effects and loops while having to re sync things all at the same time to the point of not using the effects.
I can train wreck a mix without trying, but to have the effects doing it, just makes me look bad.
Sooooo close to perfection
Maybe using that same principle as an effect engine would work.
The other thing that I have suggested is anchoring to the snare.
No matter what the base line does, the snare is nearly always following a steady 4 4 tempo.
We seemed to have misunderstood the meaning of a colored wave form also.
A base kick should be red, and a snare tick should be white.
I cue up with phones, but time my 32 intro mixes.
When I get to 32, a quick glance and I can see if its still tight.
This can't be done even with the extra grid lines wave feature except to show you how really far off it is.
It gets a little much to be using audio and video effects and loops while having to re sync things all at the same time to the point of not using the effects.
I can train wreck a mix without trying, but to have the effects doing it, just makes me look bad.
Sooooo close to perfection
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 11:46 am
Kenny Speed
Ha Ha ha, that makes it look even worse than I thought!
The drummer is hopeless every time he does a fill he looses the beat, and other times he just drifts around it. or away from it.
groovindj said, "I'm wondering if dropping that section back down to the 'main' tempo will impact on the feel. Might stand out like a sore thumb".
Possibly, but only one way to find out.
May end up being one song I'll try not to use, or if I do, it will have to be as is, without effects.
The drummer is hopeless every time he does a fill he looses the beat, and other times he just drifts around it. or away from it.
groovindj said, "I'm wondering if dropping that section back down to the 'main' tempo will impact on the feel. Might stand out like a sore thumb".
Possibly, but only one way to find out.
May end up being one song I'll try not to use, or if I do, it will have to be as is, without effects.
Mensajes Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 10:17 pm
Kenny Speed
I just downloaded a trial version of Acid Pro, and ran Radar Love through their beatmatching / timestretching system.
Was ok to use, I did use it inconjunction with that BPM Live app that groovindj has. Live BPM was reporting the BPM as I was working my way through the song, so I was able to quickly adjust to the right BPM, without too much trial & error, as sometimes it gets a bit hard to see it in the wave form.
Acid is not automatic, it's similar to VDJ, but it conforms the song to the beat, not the beat to the song.
So I ended up with a lot of beat markers with changes in tempo, and although I could have probably spent more time and done a bit better job, the end result was not suitable as it was notably sounding too slow in places. Maybe the whole thing could then be sped up a bit to compensate? There is some experimentation that could possibly be done but I don't know that I could be bothered. I want something simple, effective and automatic, if possible. So just scan the song and apply changes automatically, and voila. A decent sounding song with a consistent tempo. Such a thing probably doesn't exist I suspect?
Was ok to use, I did use it inconjunction with that BPM Live app that groovindj has. Live BPM was reporting the BPM as I was working my way through the song, so I was able to quickly adjust to the right BPM, without too much trial & error, as sometimes it gets a bit hard to see it in the wave form.
Acid is not automatic, it's similar to VDJ, but it conforms the song to the beat, not the beat to the song.
So I ended up with a lot of beat markers with changes in tempo, and although I could have probably spent more time and done a bit better job, the end result was not suitable as it was notably sounding too slow in places. Maybe the whole thing could then be sped up a bit to compensate? There is some experimentation that could possibly be done but I don't know that I could be bothered. I want something simple, effective and automatic, if possible. So just scan the song and apply changes automatically, and voila. A decent sounding song with a consistent tempo. Such a thing probably doesn't exist I suspect?
Mensajes Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 1:16 am
wickedmix
@Kenny Speed
when it comes to warping song i prefer to only fix the areas that i will be using to mix with that way the rest of the song isn't altered too much. Unless you plan on using FX that are beat based that is all you really need IMO.
also this way in vdj you will only need 2 beat markers one at the first beat and one where you intend on mixing from.
anyways this is the way i prefer to do it.
and no such a thing currently doesn't exist to my knowledge.
when it comes to warping song i prefer to only fix the areas that i will be using to mix with that way the rest of the song isn't altered too much. Unless you plan on using FX that are beat based that is all you really need IMO.
also this way in vdj you will only need 2 beat markers one at the first beat and one where you intend on mixing from.
anyways this is the way i prefer to do it.
and no such a thing currently doesn't exist to my knowledge.
Mensajes Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 2:59 am
groovindj
What I've done in the past with tracks that have huge tempo swings (bigger than Radar Love) is to pick a tempo in between the lowest & highest, and make the track stick to that all the way through.
One example is Car Wash. That starts off slow (108ish) then quickly speeds up (115) and gradually builds as it goes, to about 122.
My warped version is 116 all the way through, and doesn't sound "wrong". Aguilera's cover from Shark Tale is 116.
I think maybe 105 is the spot to aim for with Radar Love. I'll try it out. If necessary I'll leave the speed increase in the middle section but remove the small variations, so it'll go 105-110-105.
One example is Car Wash. That starts off slow (108ish) then quickly speeds up (115) and gradually builds as it goes, to about 122.
My warped version is 116 all the way through, and doesn't sound "wrong". Aguilera's cover from Shark Tale is 116.
I think maybe 105 is the spot to aim for with Radar Love. I'll try it out. If necessary I'll leave the speed increase in the middle section but remove the small variations, so it'll go 105-110-105.
Mensajes Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 8:24 am
Kenny Speed
Ok groovindj be interested to hear it.
Mensajes Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 11:17 pm