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Forum: General Discussion

Tema: We highly advise to use "Internal Mixer Mode" with VirtualDj. Why?
I have always wanted to know why. I have a ddj-rz that can use external or internal mixer mode. I have always used external with this, just like my ddj-sz. I would like an honest answer to why vdj recommends internal mixer mode. Thank you
 

Mensajes Tue 01 Dec 20 @ 8:46 pm
For several reasons, such as:
A) Software reasons:
1) With internal mixer mode you are able to use post-fader effects with the unit
2) With internal mixer mode you can have automatic headphones working
3) With internal mixer mode you can have Sandbox working
4) With internal mixer mode you can use master effects
5) Despite the fact that RZ has plenty of headroom on it's audio interface, internal mixer mode offers one more layer of protection against distortion (the limiter). RZ hardware does not

B) Software conflict reasons:
Rekordbox DJ "forces" internal mixer mode on the device every time it sees it.
Therefore if you use both applications or if you are going to use this controller among with another user on the other USB port, you both need to use the same mixer mode (which if one of the software is Rekordbox is internal mixer mode)

C) Technical reasons (not so important really, but you asked)
Less traffic on your USB bus, especially if you mix with 3 or 4 decks.
Internal mixer mode requires 4 audio channels in order to fully operate with any amount of decks
External mixer mode requires 2 audio channels per deck. That means 6 or 8 audio channels if you mix often with 3 or 4 decks.
On most modern computers that should not be a problem. But on some cases, especially if the unit must be connected on a USB hub, it might make the difference between crackling audio and good audio at low buffers

Drawbacks:
The only drawback of internal mixer mode is this:
VU's are not consistent with master VU. Master VU of RZ is an analog VU that works stand alone by the device firmware. Deck vu-meters on the other hand, in internal mixer mode are operated by the software, and therefore what you see does not match the VU of the master
 

Mensajes Tue 01 Dec 20 @ 9:07 pm
thank you for this!!! I'd like to know also: I prefer the vdj not handling all my fader/volume/gain controls with soft takeover. When in internal mixer mode do I have to surrender this over to vdj? I literally hate this when I use my sb3 for small gigs.
 

Mensajes Tue 01 Dec 20 @ 9:26 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
propose entire thread is a amendment to DDJ-RZ manual as a footnote
 

Mensajes Tue 01 Dec 20 @ 10:58 pm
burnyabad wrote :
thank you for this!!! I'd like to know also: I prefer the vdj not handling all my fader/volume/gain controls with soft takeover. When in internal mixer mode do I have to surrender this over to vdj? I literally hate this when I use my sb3 for small gigs.


Look for controllerTakeoverMode in settings. Set it to instant if you want no soft takeover
 

Mensajes Tue 01 Dec 20 @ 11:41 pm
burnyabad wrote :
thank you for this!!! I'd like to know also: I prefer the vdj not handling all my fader/volume/gain controls with soft takeover. When in internal mixer mode do I have to surrender this over to vdj? I literally hate this when I use my sb3 for small gigs.

Basically faders (volume faders and crossfader) don't move by their own... :P
Therefore there is no soft takeover for them
For EQ knobs you can disable "resetEqOnLoad" option. And there you won't need soft take-over mode for them either.
That leaves as with gain.
Gain is a different thing.
There are various ways to use it, depending on what you're after.

I will describe here what's the most correct way to use VirtualDJ's software gain, and then some tips on how to adjust to your current behavior.
1) On software gain, 12 o clock position is the normal position. It's where the gains should be for autogain to work as best as it can.
2) With software gain, gain sliders are NOT used for permanent channel adjustments. E.G. if you need louder sound than you currently have, you don't set the gain of all channels at 1 o clock. You change the 'zerodb' (headroom) setting. Thank god, RZ has plenty of headroom!
3) For autogain to work as best as it can you need to become accustomed to always bring your gain knobs back to 12 o clock position. In other words you should use gain knobs to do minor adjustments (mostly apply gain when you need on quiet parts of songs) and then bring slowly back to 12 o clock.
4) For autogain to work as best as it can, it must be set at "auto" and 'gainSliderIncludesAutogain' setting must be enabled. These 2 things combined mean that every time you load a new track on a deck, gain slider will "jump" to it's park postion, 12 o clock. That's why it's critical to always return gain to that location. So that you don't have to worry about soft take over.

Now if you want to try internal mixer, and you want to copy the behavior of a hardware mixer you can either set takeovermode to instant (which I don't personally recommend just yet for you) or turn off autogain, but leave the 'gainsliderincludesautogain' option enabled.
If you manage to work a few times with internal mixer and you get accustomed with using your gain sliders at 12 o clock position, then you can turn back on auto gain and set takeovermode to instant.
The reason I'm giving this advise is that the first time you will use internal mixer, you may forget to set your controller gain faders back to 12 o position before having the track going live on air. Then if you try to adjust gain you will get a sudden jump on gain (bigger or smaller depending on the position of the "forgotten" gain slider)

To be honest I was using SZ (hardware mixer) myself for a couple of years and when I switched it with RZ, I initially used it with hardware mixer setup too. Then I switched to internal mixer in order to have post-fader effects. It took me a couple of gigs to get used of it, but I never looked back to use hardware mixer mode with it again... (And yes, RZ is my nr1 favorite controller up to this day)
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 12:36 am
locodog wrote :
propose entire thread is a amendment to DDJ-RZ manual as a footnote


Basically, with the exception of what I said about RekordboxDJ (that forces all controllers designed for it to use software mixer) all the other points are the core differences between software vs. hardware mixer for ANY controller that supports both ways, or between controllers of the same class that have different mixer modes (like DDJ-1000 vs DDJ-100SRT)
Therefore it's more a comparison of hardware vs software mixer in general, than particularly for DDJ-RZ
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 12:39 am
Excellent information. I love this rz, and to be honest, I truly hate the internal mixer. I do too many things as a dj to focus on going back to 12 o'clock on every song. I run lights, mix music, take requests and 4 other things. I can manually beat mix with the best of them but prefer sync as a tool to do more with less time.

Using the sb3 for small gigs has burned me on internal mixers. I spent the extra money for my sz and rz to avoid using a software mixer when I have the best controller hardware mixer without buying club mixer equipment.
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 2:58 am
Ive never used internal mixer, I started with VirtualDj since version 5 because the crossfader in internal mode wasn't able to keep up with me in certain scratch patterns. Has the internal crossfader response improved?
Let me correct this I use theintrenal mixer with my VCI-400 but Im doing what Im doing on my 1200s and external mixer.
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 5:11 am
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
proof of the pudding... give it a try :)
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 5:56 am
On the eraly days of controllers, crossfaders were 7 bit MIDI (128 possible values from far left to far right)
These days most high range controllers use 14 bit MIDI (16384 possible values) and some of them (like RZ mentioned here) even use HID
So yes, crossfader responce has improved a lot.

burnyabad wrote :
I do too many things as a dj to focus on going back to 12 o'clock on every song. I run lights, mix music, take requests and 4 other things. I can manually beat mix with the best of them but prefer sync as a tool to do more with less time.

I was doing the same as well (One man show). But returning gain to 12 o clock among with EQ's become very soon second nature to me... ;)
It's just knowing how to use it that makes things clear and easy.

Edit:
As a man that tought me a lot of things about sound engineering used to say...
You should ALWAYS start from flat and then adjust. Even if you hooked this guitarist on the same system 100 times before... :P
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 9:25 am
I will try this because I respect your knowledge. Ill work on it for a few days and get back to you. Thank you.
 

Mensajes Wed 02 Dec 20 @ 7:20 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
Gain will indeed work properly if it's used as intended.
So it just be at 12 'o clock by default, and with default virtualdj settings this will mean autogain is properly applied and the volume of different songs should be very similar.
Then if a single song or a certain part of a song is too loud or too quiet you could temporarily use the gain to boost or lower it.
For the next song you'd obviously want normal volume again, so it should be back to center.
Using software mixer the physical position and internal position can be different, so the gain will be corrected anyway, but to change it you would have to bring back the physical slider to center first to match the actual posiiton.
Either way it should be fine as long as you use the gain only to make temporary adjustments as it's supposed to.

The problem some people have with this method is if they are used to use the gain just as another volume control. So instead of using the master volume to lower or boost the overall volume, or use the zeroDb option to create additional headroom, instead they lower or boost the gain on all decks.
If this is the case, then you would indeed find yourself 'fighting' the vdj autogain in internal mixer mode since after every track you'd have to bring the gain back to 12 'o clock and then put it back to the original level.
The easiest way to solve this is to use the zeroDb setting or the master volume for this kind of adjustments instead.
 

Mensajes Thu 03 Dec 20 @ 5:37 am
Wow this thread has taught me a lot! Is any of this information pooled somewhere in a knowledge database?
I think knowing your hardware and software inside out is key to truly building trust in your systems.
 

Mensajes Fri 11 Dec 20 @ 7:24 pm
I used "external" mode on my DN-HC4500 and MC6000 controllers for a long time as it was the way I had worked since using BPM Studio in 1999 with external dual channel sound cards. Changing to internal mode is a bit weird, but after a few gigs and getting used to the gain changes etc. you won't notice a difference. I always have zerodb set at -3 as the limiter cuts in too often at zero.
 

Mensajes Fri 11 Dec 20 @ 8:03 pm
From my personal experience, the only real problem using the external mixer ( with DDJ RZ ) is the very low audio output, both on the single track channels and on the master ( even having set the usb output to -5 db ) ... in addition to the sound quality which obviously does not even reach the orange LED even at maximum gain, the biggest discomfort is not having the margin to be able to mix two tracks if one is already low in level. UNFORTUNATELY UNUSABLE!!
 

Mensajes Thu 27 Jul 23 @ 2:47 pm