So I am on the verge of returning my second new laptop in a week because despite on paper being many levels newer and more powerful than my old laptop, I seem to be having audio issues with VDJ out of the box.
I purchased a Lenovo Legion with an R7 AMD processor and a 4070 and returned it in a few days because of weird audio artifacting (pop, click, stutter) especially when I hooked it up to a couple CDJ 3000s and a DJM A9. Forums seemed to suggest issues with ryzen and realtime audio so I sought out an Intel system.
I swapped it for a Gigabyte Aorus 15 with an i7 13th gen and a 4070 and now it seems like virtualdj is being starved for resources and stuttering occasionally both visually and in the audio.
I ran both on performance mode and even tried assigning high and realtime process priorities to virtualdj but to no effect. I also fully updated both computers and removed any bloatware or unnecessary software. Am I just unlucky or is there a problem with modern laptops? My laptops from 10 and 6 years ago don't have these audio issues...
I purchased a Lenovo Legion with an R7 AMD processor and a 4070 and returned it in a few days because of weird audio artifacting (pop, click, stutter) especially when I hooked it up to a couple CDJ 3000s and a DJM A9. Forums seemed to suggest issues with ryzen and realtime audio so I sought out an Intel system.
I swapped it for a Gigabyte Aorus 15 with an i7 13th gen and a 4070 and now it seems like virtualdj is being starved for resources and stuttering occasionally both visually and in the audio.
I ran both on performance mode and even tried assigning high and realtime process priorities to virtualdj but to no effect. I also fully updated both computers and removed any bloatware or unnecessary software. Am I just unlucky or is there a problem with modern laptops? My laptops from 10 and 6 years ago don't have these audio issues...
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 2:19 pm
kradcliffe
I have returned several. Went back to my 2019 Lenovo C940. New laptops are crap.
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 4:32 pm
groovindj
No issues with an Alienware that I bought in late 2021.
No issue with Windows 11 either, before anyone comments. :-)
No issue with Windows 11 either, before anyone comments. :-)
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 4:51 pm
I am very close to throwing in the towel on finding a new windows laptop and just drinking the mac flavoured Kool aid so I can stop fixating, even though they are so damn expensive.
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 5:04 pm
kradcliffe
Glad that @groovin has such a perfect life. Been loads and loads of posts about this lately but nobody is taking it seriously.
It will ultimately affect Atomix revenue at some point as people find alternative solutions.
It will ultimately affect Atomix revenue at some point as people find alternative solutions.
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 5:26 pm
groovindj
No, I never said that. It's not all doom and gloom either though, as you often imply.
I know you like to have a dig at Denon, Windows 11 and laptops whenever the subjects come up, so just providing some contrast.
There are sites, for example, that list laptops suitable for music production - and if they can handle that, VDJ should be a walk in the park.
I know you like to have a dig at Denon, Windows 11 and laptops whenever the subjects come up, so just providing some contrast.
There are sites, for example, that list laptops suitable for music production - and if they can handle that, VDJ should be a walk in the park.
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 6:21 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Getting the pops/clicks as well on an M1 Macbook pro but I am also running a lot of other stuff behind VDJ (cameras, live streaming, recording, etc, etc).
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 6:37 pm
wickedmix
user12428911 wrote :
I am very close to throwing in the towel on finding a new windows laptop and just drinking the mac flavoured Kool aid so I can stop fixating, even though they are so damn expensive.
look into a firmware update for the main board some AMD laptops have latency issues that can be fixed with a firmware update
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 7:09 pm
kradcliffe
The main German specialist laptop manufacturer has suspended production due to Windows issues. Was a post on it about a month ago.
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 8:45 pm
groovindj
Would that be XMG by any chance?
The site where I just found this:
Currently recommended laptops for audio and music production with low DPC latencies
They're still making laptops, and they have some detailed info about use for audio on their site (if you bothered to check your facts).
The site where I just found this:
Currently recommended laptops for audio and music production with low DPC latencies
They're still making laptops, and they have some detailed info about use for audio on their site (if you bothered to check your facts).
Mensajes Fri 03 May 24 @ 9:34 pm
kradcliffe
So what's your solution then, just be lucky like you are?
Lots more posts about this on the FB group and blame being thrown around but no investigation or potential fix from anyone.
Even if it is a Windows issue it still affects VDJ performance and people's work so shoulkd at least be looked at.
I ordered three laptops, all i7 & i9 with RTX30xx graphics and they were all so bad they couldn't be used and no matter what I did to try and remedy they had massive latency spikes.
Lots more posts about this on the FB group and blame being thrown around but no investigation or potential fix from anyone.
Even if it is a Windows issue it still affects VDJ performance and people's work so shoulkd at least be looked at.
I ordered three laptops, all i7 & i9 with RTX30xx graphics and they were all so bad they couldn't be used and no matter what I did to try and remedy they had massive latency spikes.
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 3:19 pm
groovindj
It's not my job to offer a solution. As I said, there are sites out there listing laptops specifically for this type of work (including the XMG site).
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 4:26 pm
kradcliffe
I get that but 99 percent of people just want to walk in to Currys and buy something that will work out of the box like the good old days.
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 4:28 pm
groovindj
Well Currys are not exactly known for their DJ or music equipment are they? They sell stuff for domestic use, for the average consumer.
The PC I'm typing this on, for example, was custom made by a company who specialise in building fully bespoke music PCs. The right tool for the right job.
The PC I'm typing this on, for example, was custom made by a company who specialise in building fully bespoke music PCs. The right tool for the right job.
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 4:36 pm
kradcliffe
Point is though most DJs (from what I see both in the wild and in groups) don't want high end audio specific machines. They want cheap and nasty.
Even then some people are spending 4 grand on a top end gaming machine and it doesn't work either.
I can get VDJ to run on a pretty crappy Atom processor without issues so why are so many people now getting audio artefacts?
Even then some people are spending 4 grand on a top end gaming machine and it doesn't work either.
I can get VDJ to run on a pretty crappy Atom processor without issues so why are so many people now getting audio artefacts?
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 4:54 pm
I hear your point about the right tool for the job but buying custom built doesn't make practical sense for your average part time mobile DJ who is trying to supplement their income. I am happy to invest in my tools but spending more than 2 to 3 thousand doesn't make fiscal sense at my level of earning. I also think it is worth noting that up until seemingly more recently, consumer laptops had and still continue to run the software without significant issue so something has clearly changed with the internal scheduling/operation of these newer systems. I hope this is able to be resolved with updates or at least the cause identified so we can be more informed when we are looking for laptops.
Right now I am still strongly leaning towards buying a MacBook pro which is more expensive but seems to have a better track record in the audio space. I would still prefer a Windows machine but I can't keep throwing my time and money at the problem, hoping I find one that works.
Right now I am still strongly leaning towards buying a MacBook pro which is more expensive but seems to have a better track record in the audio space. I would still prefer a Windows machine but I can't keep throwing my time and money at the problem, hoping I find one that works.
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 9:32 pm
Djratedxxx919
What problems are people having? What are the specs of the laptops?
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 10:57 pm
Djratedxxx919 wrote :
What problems are people having? What are the specs of the laptops?
I would refer you to the original post but it was an R7 7745 chipset with a 4070 and 16GB of ram in the first unit from Lenovo. The second was a 13th gen i7 with a 4070 and 16 GB of RAM also but from Gigabyte.
Both had substantial audio issues and performance issues out of the box with virtual dj that I have not experienced with any of my older laptops before or presently.
Mensajes Tue 07 May 24 @ 11:22 pm
PhantomDeejay
VirtualDJ (and /or Rekordbox DJ and/or Serato DJ) are powerless against this.
Unfortunately the "DJ" market (or even the audio production market) is very small for the big laptop manufacturers to pay any attention to.
Most of the time the latency issues are caused by badly written drivers. Some times form the manufacturers of various components, and some times from Microsoft itself.
We can bitch as much as we like, but Asus, or Gigabyte, or Dell, won't keep 5-10 extra developers employed, just to find out what "bug" causes this driver to work fine and the other to have a few ms latency more, when 99,999999% of the users won't notice/bother, and those developers better start working for the next product release a few months down the line.
Also the reason of those more frequent "out of the box" latency issues is that manufacturers are aiming more and more towards providing more efficient stuff, than providing more powerfull stuff.
So, in their new moto, it makes absolutely perfect sense to extend battery life by 10 minutes in expense of having 0,0000001% users affected with higher latency.
Remember, latency is a bitch for us, but it's not something most users will be affected by. And latency is not a matter of raw power either. You can get the faster processor in the world, put it on a system with poorly written chipset drivers (and/or other drivers as well) and end up with a system that will get beaten (to latency terms) by a 5 year old mid range PC :P
Yes, searching for a laptop that's capable of real time audio processing with low latency is not an easy task, despite it shouldn't be.
Unfortunately the "DJ" market (or even the audio production market) is very small for the big laptop manufacturers to pay any attention to.
Most of the time the latency issues are caused by badly written drivers. Some times form the manufacturers of various components, and some times from Microsoft itself.
We can bitch as much as we like, but Asus, or Gigabyte, or Dell, won't keep 5-10 extra developers employed, just to find out what "bug" causes this driver to work fine and the other to have a few ms latency more, when 99,999999% of the users won't notice/bother, and those developers better start working for the next product release a few months down the line.
Also the reason of those more frequent "out of the box" latency issues is that manufacturers are aiming more and more towards providing more efficient stuff, than providing more powerfull stuff.
So, in their new moto, it makes absolutely perfect sense to extend battery life by 10 minutes in expense of having 0,0000001% users affected with higher latency.
Remember, latency is a bitch for us, but it's not something most users will be affected by. And latency is not a matter of raw power either. You can get the faster processor in the world, put it on a system with poorly written chipset drivers (and/or other drivers as well) and end up with a system that will get beaten (to latency terms) by a 5 year old mid range PC :P
Yes, searching for a laptop that's capable of real time audio processing with low latency is not an easy task, despite it shouldn't be.
Mensajes Wed 08 May 24 @ 10:12 am
kradcliffe
It's always been a bit of a gamble though, been using laptops to DJ with since 1999 and some work perfectly out of the box and others are a nightmare.
Also depends on the drivers for your controller too.
Just going to stick with my 2019 Lenovo C940 running Windows 10 until it dies then look at things again at the time.
Also depends on the drivers for your controller too.
Just going to stick with my 2019 Lenovo C940 running Windows 10 until it dies then look at things again at the time.
Mensajes Wed 08 May 24 @ 11:50 am
