PhantomDeejay
In Version 8 the limiter is always enabled and there's no option to turn it off.
Fact1:
It's a LIMITER. It's not a COMPRESSOR. There are a lot differencies on how and when a LIMITER kicks in, in comparison with a compressor.
Fact2:
VirtualDj's limiter will activate ONLY when the volume of the sound that you're trying to send on your soundcard would produce DISTORTION on the digital signal path (e.g. You're trying to output digital sound higher than +0db)
Fact3:
VirtualDj's limiter does not act as a compressor nor it can be adjusted to become one. You cannot lower the threshold and you cannot alter the compress ratio.
Now:
If you're having issues because of the limiter (limiter kicks in very frequently) then it's up to your settings and most likely due to your gain adjustments.
Turning the gain all way up on the digital world won't produce louder sound. It will produce louder distorted sound.
In other words: Limiter is always active to prevent distortion, and we decided to include it's indicator on the default skin in order to be able to see when you have overdone it and you need to step back.
If you need louder sound then a more powerfull sound system is needed. Not more gain...
PS: VirtualDj's auto gain is set to "Auto+Remember" by default. This means that it will remember your gain adjustments if you tweak them.
However this produces an anwanted side-effect. When you load a track that has a gain set (either by v7 or by v8) too loud it will "force" the limiter to kick in.
Best practise would be to set your auto-gain in options to "auto" only so that VDJ loads the tracks with a propriate gain and the limiter does not kick in frequently.
PS2:
In V7 there was a setting (Volume Headroom)
In V8 we have another option for this, called "zeroDB" By default it's set to 1.0 that equals with no volume headroom. If you like to play with your EQ's frequently and you move them frequently on the positive range, then you should lower this value to get some headroom. Personally I find this value for my style of mixing to be best set between 0.75 and 0.8. However you can mess around with it to find your own sweet spot. (You need to reload a track for this setting to work as it's taken into consideration when you load tracks)
Fact1:
It's a LIMITER. It's not a COMPRESSOR. There are a lot differencies on how and when a LIMITER kicks in, in comparison with a compressor.
Fact2:
VirtualDj's limiter will activate ONLY when the volume of the sound that you're trying to send on your soundcard would produce DISTORTION on the digital signal path (e.g. You're trying to output digital sound higher than +0db)
Fact3:
VirtualDj's limiter does not act as a compressor nor it can be adjusted to become one. You cannot lower the threshold and you cannot alter the compress ratio.
Now:
If you're having issues because of the limiter (limiter kicks in very frequently) then it's up to your settings and most likely due to your gain adjustments.
Turning the gain all way up on the digital world won't produce louder sound. It will produce louder distorted sound.
In other words: Limiter is always active to prevent distortion, and we decided to include it's indicator on the default skin in order to be able to see when you have overdone it and you need to step back.
If you need louder sound then a more powerfull sound system is needed. Not more gain...
PS: VirtualDj's auto gain is set to "Auto+Remember" by default. This means that it will remember your gain adjustments if you tweak them.
However this produces an anwanted side-effect. When you load a track that has a gain set (either by v7 or by v8) too loud it will "force" the limiter to kick in.
Best practise would be to set your auto-gain in options to "auto" only so that VDJ loads the tracks with a propriate gain and the limiter does not kick in frequently.
PS2:
In V7 there was a setting (Volume Headroom)
In V8 we have another option for this, called "zeroDB" By default it's set to 1.0 that equals with no volume headroom. If you like to play with your EQ's frequently and you move them frequently on the positive range, then you should lower this value to get some headroom. Personally I find this value for my style of mixing to be best set between 0.75 and 0.8. However you can mess around with it to find your own sweet spot. (You need to reload a track for this setting to work as it's taken into consideration when you load tracks)
Mensajes Mon 12 May 14 @ 3:15 am
djmagicmoments
Fantastic and great explanation.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Mensajes Mon 12 May 14 @ 7:41 am
rockandrollkid
phantom I understand what ur saying about limiter and the facts are true when ur doing a gig but this doesnt work well in broadcasting when im transmitting to a server I can not have limitations set so low not saying the gain needs to be all the way up but in broadcasting u don't have an amp pushing sound .... I remember this being a problem in 7 and we were told to disable limiter when I did I had no issue at all steve
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 9:12 am
groovindj
Yes, would be nice not to have restrictions placed on us.
It's OK to have as default for beginners, but pros don't need it.
It's OK to have as default for beginners, but pros don't need it.
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 9:16 am
Adion
In the digital world, as soon as the level of the signal exceeds the range, there will be distortion.
The limiter *only* kicks in when the alternative would have been clipping and the distortion that comes with it.
If you are a pro and you already keep your volume within limits then it doesn't matter whether it is on or off, since it will not do anything.
Pros that understand what they are doing can even use it in their advantage, keeping volume more equal even while in a mix that could cause the limiter to work just a little.
Also, vdj 8 allows effects to be selected on the master output, so someone could create a plugin that clips the signal instead of limiting, or you could use the distortion plugin that is native to virtual dj.
The limiter *only* kicks in when the alternative would have been clipping and the distortion that comes with it.
If you are a pro and you already keep your volume within limits then it doesn't matter whether it is on or off, since it will not do anything.
Pros that understand what they are doing can even use it in their advantage, keeping volume more equal even while in a mix that could cause the limiter to work just a little.
Also, vdj 8 allows effects to be selected on the master output, so someone could create a plugin that clips the signal instead of limiting, or you could use the distortion plugin that is native to virtual dj.
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:02 am
Djratedxxx919
djsteve27 wrote :
phantom I understand what ur saying about limiter and the facts are true when ur doing a gig but this doesnt work well in broadcasting when im transmitting to a server I can not have limitations set so low not saying the gain needs to be all the way up but in broadcasting u don't have an amp pushing sound .... I remember this being a problem in 7 and we were told to disable limiter when I did I had no issue at all steve
Actually if your broadcasting arent you connect to a Mixer. So having a cleaner signal is more beneficial. if your sending a too hot signal into the outboard mixer you are begging for horrible sound. I have my zerodb set at .5, then set a unity gain style settings on my dj mixer (using the djmixer gains) as the input on the house mixer. Then a clean nonclipping signal to the amp rack and let it do all work.
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:10 am
rockandrollkid
no miver involved i use a comtroller im a pro broadcaster on live 365.com ,,, ive never had any problem with sound in ver 7 cause i was able to not have restrictions with limiter when u broadcast the signal and feed comes across a lot different then doing a live gig.. a lot of broadcasters use sam broadcaster i prefer vdj cause of my options and the software .... i cant set my gains to like 0 db cause limiterwill kick in at have to set to like 8 or 9 o clock no higher a lot of my tracks on in 320 kbps for pro sound
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:21 am
rockandrollkid
ps i have never had distortion with limier disabled
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:23 am
rockandrollkid
again if ur doing a live show or a gig u use different setting for diffent mixes etc ... im not always in front of the controls and im broadcasting 24/7 lim a internet radio station operator the sound has to ne equal and consistent moe less leveled ... now theres an limiter indicator on 8 to monitor limitor out put there is also a button in master output that always remain on so why cant u have the choice to turn that off or on it should the discrection of the user how they control there sound/audio to meet there needs i still don't understand why the feature to do that was in 7 not 8 im not saying to get rid of it it could help in some cases but not all
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:32 am
PhantomDeejay
When you broadcast, the signal still travels on the digital domain. So you may not hear distortion on your side but the sound arrrives distorted on the server side. Thous it will be broadcasted as distorted sound on your clients and they can do nothing to remove it.
If you want louder sound you can use a "broadcast compressor" as an effect on your master though... It will give you louder output without distorting the output
If you want louder sound you can use a "broadcast compressor" as an effect on your master though... It will give you louder output without distorting the output
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:38 am
rockandrollkid
phantom i listen to my station to monitor it even on my smartphone never had that issue i never use the sound directly from vdj to monitor my end output,,,,,
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:49 am
rockandrollkid
i been broadcasting for over 2 years now using vdj software ... i don't broadcast on vdj however never had this issue
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:50 am
Djratedxxx919
PhantomDeejay wrote :
When you broadcast, the signal still travels on the digital domain. So you may not hear distortion on your side but the sound arrrives distorted on the server side. Thous it will be broadcasted as distorted sound on your clients and they can do nothing to remove it.
If you want louder sound you can use a "broadcast compressor" as an effect on your master though... It will give you louder output without distorting the output
If you want louder sound you can use a "broadcast compressor" as an effect on your master though... It will give you louder output without distorting the output
+1
Cool the signals going thru your channels then add that loudness on the master...me my self i use the Breakaway stuff Breakawaydj instead of buying a rack processor, Breakaway Broadcast Processor for broadcasting. Pro sound on a food stamp budget.
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:51 am
rockandrollkid
how do u add a broadcast compressor to effects in vdj
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 10:54 am
PhantomDeejay
VirtualDj supports VST effect.
And they can be used on decks or master...
I have literraly a ton of FREE good multi-band compressor/expanders here ;)
PS: For more info regarding VST effects read the manual... ;)
And they can be used on decks or master...
I have literraly a ton of FREE good multi-band compressor/expanders here ;)
PS: For more info regarding VST effects read the manual... ;)
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 11:06 am
bagpuss
Surely it would be good practice to calibrate your gain levels before you start your set.
Play two loud tracks (say EDM) over the top of one another (at their loudest parts to be safe) with the volume sliders at 100%, now look at the VU meters and adjust your gain levels (making sure both decks are matched) until the sound is peaking at a sensible level (say no higher than 80% with no signs of red).
Your gain levels will probably be set between -5db to -8db to achieve this.
This means you're completely safe, because it's unlikely you're going to transition between two tracks at their loudest points, and without EQ'ing or reducing levels in the process. The limiter will be sleeping like a baby.
The theory of this was good until I just discovered that auto gain on always matches at 0db, which has left me puzzled, why can't I set a lower value once and have all subsequently loaded tracks match the said value automatically? Of course I understand why a value over 0db wouldn't be allowed.
Play two loud tracks (say EDM) over the top of one another (at their loudest parts to be safe) with the volume sliders at 100%, now look at the VU meters and adjust your gain levels (making sure both decks are matched) until the sound is peaking at a sensible level (say no higher than 80% with no signs of red).
Your gain levels will probably be set between -5db to -8db to achieve this.
This means you're completely safe, because it's unlikely you're going to transition between two tracks at their loudest points, and without EQ'ing or reducing levels in the process. The limiter will be sleeping like a baby.
The theory of this was good until I just discovered that auto gain on always matches at 0db, which has left me puzzled, why can't I set a lower value once and have all subsequently loaded tracks match the said value automatically? Of course I understand why a value over 0db wouldn't be allowed.
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 12:09 pm
Dan (djtouchdan)
bagpuss wrote :
The theory of this was good until I just discovered that auto gain on always matches at 0db, which has left me puzzled, why can't I set a lower value once and have all subsequently loaded tracks match the said value automatically? Of course I understand why a value over 0db wouldn't be allowed.
The theory of this was good until I just discovered that auto gain on always matches at 0db, which has left me puzzled, why can't I set a lower value once and have all subsequently loaded tracks match the said value automatically? Of course I understand why a value over 0db wouldn't be allowed.
I think this is what you want:
config->options->set advanced-> zeroDB
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 12:12 pm
groovindj
PhantomDeejay wrote :
For more info regarding VST effects read the manual
There's no mention of VST effects in the manual. There wasn't in previous manuals either.
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 12:16 pm
PhantomDeejay
In version 8 the Gain knobs on the skin by default also include the adjustment of auto-gain. In other words when you see them at 12 o clock it's where they are set by auto gain. (internally one track might be in -3 db and the other in +3 db but both will show at 12 o clock) This is to make it easier for you to handle your gain adjustments (so that 12 o clock is always the maximum spot without adding distortion)
Of course if you don't like this option you can turn it off
Of course if you don't like this option you can turn it off
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 12:16 pm
markdeejay75
SBDJ has released a fantastic 30-way graphic EQ for VirtualDJ (and a 10-way too) im mentioning it here because its very easy to hit that limiter with it and you MAY think the EQ is un-usable. While yes if you ramp any of the frequencies up the limiter kicks in BUT if you imagine that the EQ can be adjusted below the 0db marker, you can open up much more scope for this.
(Unlike its analogue counterpart which you may have in your system, this is digital and as you cannot adjust the limiter past ZeroDb this EQ is useful to punch-out specific EQs, and certainly will be coming with me on the road)
(Unlike its analogue counterpart which you may have in your system, this is digital and as you cannot adjust the limiter past ZeroDb this EQ is useful to punch-out specific EQs, and certainly will be coming with me on the road)
Mensajes Tue 13 May 14 @ 12:23 pm
