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Tema: NEW HARDWARE: Pioneer DDJ-RZX - Page: 2
bagpussPRO InfinityMember since 2003

It'll likely be a miss like all first generation Pioneer controllers, stick to what you have and wait for MK2 to get it right.

Mensajes Sun 03 Jul 16 @ 8:30 pm
To be honest:

There are two different categories of units:

Units that are "controllers" and units that offer some kind of "stand-alone" operation.

This unit (being a DDJ series model) is a controller. And yes, it's expensive for a "plain" controller. If it was meant to have a stand-alone operation mode, chances are it would have been a XDJ series model, whatever that means.
Pioneer's strategy might seem awkward, but it makes perfect sense:

They released an "all-in-one" unit (XDJ-RX) first (almost 18months ago), but they limited it's controller abilities since at the time they didn't had their own software, and they tried to push users to use Rekordbox (on preparation mode)
Numark released NV with screens and stuff, but Pioneer didn't felt the need to make something similar since it was in mid-range category. However since they introduced Rekordbox Dj they decided and announced that they will unlock the XDJ-RX firmware to make it more PC friendly, making XDJ-RX the "alter-ego" of NV.
Unfortunately for them in the meanwhile Denon MCX-8000 was introduced (offering a controller with screens and stand-alone operation) and effectively being what XDJ-RX should have been in the first place. Also NS7III and Dashboard were introduced.
The response from Pioneer was "we can do it better" and they through out a killer machine. However, keep in mind that units like this need enough time in design and development stages. So, if I was about to guess this unit's concept has been conceived about 6 to 10 months ago.
What does that mean: Pioneer decided to make this unit "just because they can" and show that they can do it better than their competition. In terms of functionality it has everything users would want from a modern controller besides motorwheels (I doubt Pioneer will ever do motorized platters). It has bigger screens, they are touch sensitive, and they can also show the video preview. Other than that it also offers hardware effects on the 4 channel mixer to use with analog sources. If you try to compare it with it's competition, yes this unit is better in all aspects.

Conclusion:
Pioneer wants to push users in it's own ecosystem. That's not news. Whether we like it or not, out of all major manufacturers they have the technology to produce the best equipment function-wise and built-wise. However they don't want to give out too much. They seem to be somehow following the others but in fact they just wait to see what others provide and then they "do it better" in order to get the users moving along their gear and software.
Pioneer delivers new stuff from time to time only in order to achieve the same goal. Move more users against it's own ecosystem. The new Nexus2 series is a living proof. And this controller another one. They had the technology to use touchscreens on a controller for almost one year (the combination of XDJ-1000 and XDJ-RX). However they waited until it was necessary before they introduce this unit.

bagpuss wrote :

It'll likely be a miss like all first generation Pioneer controllers, stick to what you have and wait for MK2 to get it right.


I don't agree with that statement, at least for top-of-the-line gear. DDJ-SZ for instance was a major success right from the beginning. There's no MK2 model for SZ. There is a "clone" DDJ-RZ, and then this, DDJ-RZX.
RZX could have been the MK2 model of RZ (or SZ) but they choose to introduce a new series.

What I would expect next ? A XDJ series equivalent with stand alone operation, in about 2 years time. Right now Pioneer does not feel the need to push you to drop your laptop. They just want you to use Rekordbox. It doesn't matter if you use it on preparation mode (stand alone units) or on performance mode (controllers). They want you to move from your current software to Rekordbox. Once Rekordbox has a strong solid user base, then time will tell how they are going to handle it.

Mensajes Mon 04 Jul 16 @ 7:40 am
Thanks Phantom for giving a very interesting summary of how Pioneer development works!

Mensajes Mon 04 Jul 16 @ 10:16 am
bagpussPRO InfinityMember since 2003

Pioneer like to spoon feed, they're always talking about "game changers" in a bid to get people to replace their setup prematurely, in reality the game changing products probably arrive once every 4-5 years on average, the rest is just incremental upgrades and fixes for things that should've been got right the first time round. The Pioneer DDJSX (to the MK2) and the DDJSR (to the RR) are prime examples of where you'd have been better off waiting until they got it right, and I'm not talking about the features they add, but the basics.

Mensajes Mon 04 Jul 16 @ 4:49 pm
kaleoPRO InfinityMember since 2003
Vdj is already able to control many screens and it's up to us to develop new skins for this:

http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/210189/VirtualDJ_Skins/Remote_Screen_Skins__or_how_to_have_up_to_6_big_screens_for_you_controlers_.html?page=1

I don't know if we can show video on vdj remote app.
Maybe it is the only thing that is needed to be able to do the same as this ddj rzx.

Vdj rocks. It is so versatile and open (plug-ins, script, vdjverbs, skin...) that we can already do tonnes of things if we use it correctly.

Kaléo.

Mensajes Mon 04 Jul 16 @ 10:21 pm
Maybe you want to read the system requirements first, before you buy this unit :)



Mensajes Tue 05 Jul 16 @ 10:03 am
16gb RAM ........ bloody hell none of my 8 PCs would work with this anyway!

With those sort of system requirements it's more like launch control for the space shuttle!

Mensajes Tue 05 Jul 16 @ 10:20 am
djdadPRO InfinityDevelopment ManagerMember since 2005
Its recommended , not minimum, but indeed a strong computer will be required to handle the amount of data processed and passed to the unit

Btw, really curious to see the resolution and the fps that the video is passed to the unit. Probably a low one is selected, thus you only see some visualisations on the demo video and not some ordinary video clip.

Mensajes Tue 05 Jul 16 @ 1:58 pm
royvanmeel wrote :
Maybe you want to read the system requirements first, before you buy this unit :)




Most likely these requirements refer to RekordboxDj with Video license, not the unit itself or it's drivers.
But yes, you will need a strong computer.

Mensajes Wed 06 Jul 16 @ 3:58 pm
Hi Guys!

I use the pioneer ddj-rzx with rekordbox 4.2.2 (latest update) with macbook pro (2,3 ghz intel core i7, osx yosemite latest update, 16 gb memory),
over 70.000 songs and some video animations on an extern hd. I think that´s totally a big performance to use just a midi-controller with a dj software.
Rekordbox works good but not perfect, because of some crashes sometimes. For Vdj or tracktor users, rekordbox is a bit complicated for the first time.
But the idea behind the software an the controller is great.

The other problem is, that you can´t play a playlist with automatically fading like in Vdj.
Means that you have to put every track by drag an drop in the play window!!!


That´s a big problem and a NO GO, pioneer! For example: when I´m working on a wedding, I want to play easy listening music in the background for the receiving,
with an automatic playlist. Or if you´re during a gig, you have no chance to go to the toilette!

Means, pioneer tells me how I have to work with their software. But when I pay over 3.000€ for a rzx (midicontroller) with a dj software,
I want choose by my self how I want to work with it! If you want to use all the effects, you have to pay 10€ extra!!!

IMPORTANT: There is no animation video from pioneer included to test the video features (like in the advertising)
And nobody can tell you where you can get this.

I fixed the problem with the automatic playlist like this:
To play automatic playlists (for receiving or dinner) I use Vdj and set the speaker outputs in vdj on the headphone outputs of my macbook.
Then I put an adapter cable (mini-kline stereo to chinch-stereo) from the headphone output of my macbook to the line input of the
pioneer rzx. Works perfect!

Other problem with rekordbox: You can´t use a second or third external midi-controller to use more sounds and loops.

I know that a lot of Dj´s who use a Rzx with rekordbox have the same problems.
Maby vdj will receive a working skin for the rzx next time. Would be great!

It´s really hard to find the number of the support hotline of pioneer.
And if you call the support hotline nobody can really answer your questions,
cause they don´t know enough about the products.

Question to pioneer: what´s the problem to put video tutorials in different languages (GERMAN) on your website or YouTube,
to explain your costumers every little function on rekordbox and the rzx?!

And pioneer, if you ignore those important customer requests, your products will not be survivable in the future!
I hope you do your homework with next updates. By the way, phone SUPPORT is important to sell products like yours in Europe.
Try to learn from the apple company.

Greetz from a costumer who spend a lot of money in your products.



Mensajes Mon 19 Sep 16 @ 4:26 pm
Maybe this should be on the Pioneer site.

Mensajes Mon 19 Sep 16 @ 7:50 pm
I have wrote it somewhere on these forums, but I'll state it here again:

We do plan to support DDJ-RZX. However we don't have an ETA at this point.
And to be honest, all the things you said are nice to hear, but you should also contact Pioneer and let them know that they need to stop locking the firmware of their devices so that you can use any software you may like with it.
We (as VirtualDj Team) cannot put any pressure on them. You, as their customers, can! :)

Mensajes Mon 19 Sep 16 @ 8:56 pm
dj5826PRO InfinityMember since 2008

Mensajes Mon 19 Sep 16 @ 11:42 pm
djdadPRO InfinityDevelopment ManagerMember since 2005
Just to make our selves (Atomix) clear here...
Yes, it is a plan to support this unit as well, as we do with all the available units. But since there is really no ETA as we havent even yet started, i would strongly advise not to purchase this unit if you intend to use it with VirtualDJ. If you have no trouble using a different software, then do so, but please do not take for granted that VirtualDJ is going to map this unit very soon.

If you see the unit listed in the coming soon list http://www.virtualdj.com/wiki/VirtualDJ8%20Controllers.html , then start bugging us again :)

Mensajes Tue 20 Sep 16 @ 1:33 am
dj5826PRO InfinityMember since 2008

Mensajes Tue 20 Sep 16 @ 8:23 pm

Mensajes Tue 20 Sep 16 @ 9:35 pm
dj5826PRO InfinityMember since 2008
That chart is way beyond my compression ;-)

I assumed you guys fully vetted it, it just struck me as odd when its not truly a genetal midi controller, as it states!

Reading some of the reviews though it seems as if a standard usb cable is not sufficient to transfer the amount of data it requires. Also using a good laptop is not strong enough to have it function properly. There are many latency issues if not using it as a stand alone controller. Some are saying it will not be worth it (if using a laptop) until a new mode of tranfering data is built into it.

Good things to note before spending the hefty 3k price tag.

Mensajes Tue 20 Sep 16 @ 10:01 pm
I can't comment about latency and data transfer issues without having the unit in front of me.

Generally this type of controllers offers 2 protocols (RZX may offer 3)
1) MIDI. Mostly what you see on chart.
2) HID. For devices like CDJ-2000/2000NXS/2000NXS2 e.t.c. it's used to send data on screens. The info transferred with HID protocol is not that much to cause delays and increased latency.

Up to this point everything should work "perfect"

3) RZX offers "Video over USB" That's not something new. There are plenty of USB monitors out there for a few years already. What impact has the "Video over USB" though to the overall performance of the controller, that I cannot tell.

Finally:
No-one has come out to back up his statements with measurements and facts. Most people assume that "the data is too much for a single USB port" but they don't prove it. Have they measured the average Mbps of the device through the USB port ?
Most people see the recommended hardware specs, but these are the specs for Rekordbox DJ with the video expansion enabled. It doesn't mean that the controller requires all this power just to perform as a controller, nor that another software like VirtualDj will require the same power to operate this unit.

Mensajes Wed 21 Sep 16 @ 6:25 am
PhantomDeejay wrote :
I can't comment about latency and data transfer issues without having the unit in front of me.

Generally this type of controllers offers 2 protocols (RZX may offer 3)
1) MIDI. Mostly what you see on chart.
2) HID. For devices like CDJ-2000/2000NXS/2000NXS2 e.t.c. it's used to send data on screens. The info transferred with HID protocol is not that much to cause delays and increased latency.

Up to this point everything should work "perfect"

3) RZX offers "Video over USB" That's not something new. There are plenty of USB monitors out there for a few years already. What impact has the "Video over USB" though to the overall performance of the controller, that I cannot tell.

Finally:
No-one has come out to back up his statements with measurements and facts. Most people assume that "the data is too much for a single USB port" but they don't prove it. Have they measured the average Mbps of the device through the USB port ?
Most people see the recommended hardware specs, but these are the specs for Rekordbox DJ with the video expansion enabled. It doesn't mean that the controller requires all this power just to perform as a controller, nor that another software like VirtualDj will require the same power to operate this unit.


Crazy stuff.
Don't you sometimes miss the good old Hercules DJ Control MP3 days, where you could map and support a unit with something like 25 midi instructions :)

Mensajes Wed 21 Sep 16 @ 6:44 am
The most "complex" devices supported by VirtualDj so far (by the means of how many elements needs to be defined for the units to work, not how complex their actual mapping is) are Reloop Neon and Pioneer DDJ-RZ.
Both of them have about 2600 entries on their definitions!

Hercules Dj Control MP3 has 60 entries ;)

Mensajes Wed 21 Sep 16 @ 8:27 am
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