andy-chiles
As the Pioneer DJM-S9 came out, I discovered the new routing for this mixer (implemented extra for / or because of this mixer, as i can remember).
Now I had the idea to try an similar routing with other mixers and their drivers...
And it worked ... almost.
I tried this on the DDJ-SZ and its driver (by modifying the S9-Routing):
- If i keep the input ("deckfxsend") and the output ("deckfxreturn") channels in the routing and choose them to go through/on the master-output (Chan 9&10), then an infinite feedback came up as soon as I started an effect.
- Then I removed "deckfxsend" from the inputs, so only the output "deckfxreturn" remained.
VDJ gave me the complete signal with the effect but also with the song, too.
(Yes, the fader of all channels were turned down, and the echo-effect went on)
I played around with the fxProcessing settings and send/return-things, but the best I've got was:
VDJ brought all signals to the master - including the effects, but the song also - and it was clipping all the time because it was way too loud.
Now I hope my idea gets perceived and the developers implement an extra output (like "FX" or "FX-Output") - maybe with an "fxvolume_master" knob to get only the "WET-Signal" of the effects routed to a channel available in the driver.
Sure this would be a little bit more complicated routing for one or another, but there are a lot of things beginners don't understand in this software...
Sooo PLEEEEASE give us this feature to get more out of the effects-unit! <3
Now I had the idea to try an similar routing with other mixers and their drivers...
And it worked ... almost.
I tried this on the DDJ-SZ and its driver (by modifying the S9-Routing):
- If i keep the input ("deckfxsend") and the output ("deckfxreturn") channels in the routing and choose them to go through/on the master-output (Chan 9&10), then an infinite feedback came up as soon as I started an effect.
- Then I removed "deckfxsend" from the inputs, so only the output "deckfxreturn" remained.
VDJ gave me the complete signal with the effect but also with the song, too.
(Yes, the fader of all channels were turned down, and the echo-effect went on)
I played around with the fxProcessing settings and send/return-things, but the best I've got was:
VDJ brought all signals to the master - including the effects, but the song also - and it was clipping all the time because it was way too loud.
Now I hope my idea gets perceived and the developers implement an extra output (like "FX" or "FX-Output") - maybe with an "fxvolume_master" knob to get only the "WET-Signal" of the effects routed to a channel available in the driver.
Sure this would be a little bit more complicated routing for one or another, but there are a lot of things beginners don't understand in this software...
Sooo PLEEEEASE give us this feature to get more out of the effects-unit! <3
Mensajes Thu 05 Jul 18 @ 12:11 am
What exactly are you trying to achieve?
Mensajes Thu 05 Jul 18 @ 12:54 am
andy-chiles
For example:
The Pioneer-Mixers used to route the effect-signal as "pre-fader" at the older models...
So even if you had an effect that decays after an amount of time (such as an echo), the fader has to be turned up in order to hear the effect.
This is the same way the current VDJ-abilities allow it, because the effect gets send directly to the normal channel, so everything is off when the fader gets turned down.
The newer models of the Pioneer-Mixers route the effect-signal "post-fader"...
That means that you can turn down your fader, and the effect is still hearable (more or less because the effect directly goes out to the master).
So you kill down the "source-signal", und the "wet-signal" of the effect is hearable, so you can hear the echo (or what ever) decay.
Take a look here:
https://youtu.be/MfpGuMTK2Xg?t=1m40s
(It starts at minute 1:43 where he explaines how to get a post-fader effect after the crossfader... It similar to what happens by pre- or post-fader on a normal channel, just to get an idea of what the difference is)
And I think this would get us a lot of new possibilities with the FX-Section inside VDJ.
The Pioneer-Mixers used to route the effect-signal as "pre-fader" at the older models...
So even if you had an effect that decays after an amount of time (such as an echo), the fader has to be turned up in order to hear the effect.
This is the same way the current VDJ-abilities allow it, because the effect gets send directly to the normal channel, so everything is off when the fader gets turned down.
The newer models of the Pioneer-Mixers route the effect-signal "post-fader"...
That means that you can turn down your fader, and the effect is still hearable (more or less because the effect directly goes out to the master).
So you kill down the "source-signal", und the "wet-signal" of the effect is hearable, so you can hear the echo (or what ever) decay.
Take a look here:
https://youtu.be/MfpGuMTK2Xg?t=1m40s
(It starts at minute 1:43 where he explaines how to get a post-fader effect after the crossfader... It similar to what happens by pre- or post-fader on a normal channel, just to get an idea of what the difference is)
And I think this would get us a lot of new possibilities with the FX-Section inside VDJ.
Mensajes Fri 06 Jul 18 @ 4:54 pm
Adion
If your controller doesn't have master output channel, and doesn't have send/return channels, then it's not possible to use the controllers sound card if you want post-fader effects.
If the controller/mixer offers midi, you could use the controller/mixer as midi device only, and use a different sound card (or 2 spare channels on a 4-channel device of which you only want to use 2) for master/headphones outputs.
Then you can simply put vdj's fxProcessing to post fader and it will work.
If the controller/mixer offers midi, you could use the controller/mixer as midi device only, and use a different sound card (or 2 spare channels on a 4-channel device of which you only want to use 2) for master/headphones outputs.
Then you can simply put vdj's fxProcessing to post fader and it will work.
Mensajes Fri 06 Jul 18 @ 5:18 pm
andy-chiles
Adion wrote :
If your controller doesn't have master output channel, and doesn't have send/return channels, then it's not possible to use the controllers sound card if you want post-fader effects.
If the controller/mixer offers midi, you could use the controller/mixer as midi device only, and use a different sound card (or 2 spare channels on a 4-channel device of which you only want to use 2) for master/headphones outputs.
Then you can simply put vdj's fxProcessing to post fader and it will work.
If the controller/mixer offers midi, you could use the controller/mixer as midi device only, and use a different sound card (or 2 spare channels on a 4-channel device of which you only want to use 2) for master/headphones outputs.
Then you can simply put vdj's fxProcessing to post fader and it will work.
My controller offers an extra master-output and the the mixer of my controller sends midi, too. But the faders are all "real hardware faders"...
So a signal only comes out if the faders are turned up on the device (no matter what the midi-things say).
I tried it on several ways, but the only satisfying way is a separate output containing only the wet-signal, routed to the master-output...
(It would work with another sound card but this is an ineffective solution because I need everything to be mobile and as simple as possible)
Is it too difficult to implement this to VDJ or why are you giving me this advice? (Just asking for my understanding)
I saw this in several softwares (DJ & DAW-Softwares), thats why I think it is not impossible.
P.s.:
I'm happy that you read my post because you are the main person behind it, so I hope you can make this happen.
Mensajes Fri 06 Jul 18 @ 5:41 pm
Adion
There is no explicit separation of wet and dry signal in vdj. Plugins process the signal any way they like.
For some effects like echo it is indeed clear what would be dry and what would be wet, but an effect such as flanger exists only when 2 signals are combined.
If your controller has an output that sends the signal directly to the master and bypasses the faders, you could simply change your audio config to send the master directly to this output.
If you then remove the fake_mixer etc... commands from ONINIT in the mapping, VDJ will process the volume levels based on the midi signals instead of the controller.
That only leaves the headphones output to be solved.
You could route it to deck 4, and always have the pfl switch of deck 4 on. If the controller doesn't send midi signals for the pfl switch turning on the pfl for the decks would require this to be done from the software though.
For some effects like echo it is indeed clear what would be dry and what would be wet, but an effect such as flanger exists only when 2 signals are combined.
If your controller has an output that sends the signal directly to the master and bypasses the faders, you could simply change your audio config to send the master directly to this output.
If you then remove the fake_mixer etc... commands from ONINIT in the mapping, VDJ will process the volume levels based on the midi signals instead of the controller.
That only leaves the headphones output to be solved.
You could route it to deck 4, and always have the pfl switch of deck 4 on. If the controller doesn't send midi signals for the pfl switch turning on the pfl for the decks would require this to be done from the software though.
Mensajes Fri 06 Jul 18 @ 6:39 pm
andy-chiles
Adion wrote :
There is no explicit separation of wet and dry signal in vdj. Plugins process the signal any way they like.
For some effects like echo it is indeed clear what would be dry and what would be wet, but an effect such as flanger exists only when 2 signals are combined.
If your controller has an output that sends the signal directly to the master and bypasses the faders, you could simply change your audio config to send the master directly to this output.
If you then remove the fake_mixer etc... commands from ONINIT in the mapping, VDJ will process the volume levels based on the midi signals instead of the controller.
That only leaves the headphones output to be solved.
You could route it to deck 4, and always have the pfl switch of deck 4 on. If the controller doesn't send midi signals for the pfl switch turning on the pfl for the decks would require this to be done from the software though.
For some effects like echo it is indeed clear what would be dry and what would be wet, but an effect such as flanger exists only when 2 signals are combined.
If your controller has an output that sends the signal directly to the master and bypasses the faders, you could simply change your audio config to send the master directly to this output.
If you then remove the fake_mixer etc... commands from ONINIT in the mapping, VDJ will process the volume levels based on the midi signals instead of the controller.
That only leaves the headphones output to be solved.
You could route it to deck 4, and always have the pfl switch of deck 4 on. If the controller doesn't send midi signals for the pfl switch turning on the pfl for the decks would require this to be done from the software though.
Ok so THIS sounds like a really good explanation why the extra output would be a tricky thing.
So with the reason like the "echo vs. flanger"-thing I can understand your answer.
And I have to say that I really tried everything in the routing, except of this way you told me now (because I was so into this "extra-wet-signal"-thing, I missed the easy way)
This could be a solution and maybe I'll give it a try on my next gig.
Thank you Adion!
P.s.:
I made a post about improving the timecode performance...
Not sure if you saw it... Could you take a look on it and give me a feedback if something helped you?
Mensajes Sat 07 Jul 18 @ 3:55 am
andy-chiles
Quote :
P.s.:
I made a post about improving the timecode performance...
Not sure if you saw it... Could you take a look on it and give me a feedback if something helped you?
I made a post about improving the timecode performance...
Not sure if you saw it... Could you take a look on it and give me a feedback if something helped you?
Forgot the link...
Here it is:
https://virtualdj.com/forums/223392/Wishes_and_new_features/Ideas_for_a_better_TimeCode_experience_performance.html
Mensajes Sat 07 Jul 18 @ 4:59 am