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Forum: General Discussion

Tópico: VDJ 2026 Teaser! - Page: 2
Yeah but it's not a race (and Traktor is lacking in many other ways). Bear in mind no other DJ software can host VSTs, which gives us the ultimate flexibility.

It's been stated before by Atomix that the sound of the onboard limiter is deliberately "gritty" to alert you, plus (see above) just run a plugin like LoudMax on the master output.
 
groovindj wrote :
It's been stated before by Atomix that the sound of the onboard limiter is deliberately "gritty" to alert you, plus (see above) just run a plugin like LoudMax on the master output.

It's not "gritty"
It's a brickwall limiter.
Not a compressor.
It's there to simply prevent distortion and nothing more.

If you want to manage/change/shape dynamics, then yes, a VST effect running on master is the only option to do that.

PS: Compressing and Limiting are two different things.
They can often be achieved by the same gear/equipment and they pretty much follow the same principals.
However they remain two different things.
 
What I mean is, the sound of the onboard limiter when it activates is unpleasant, and many people over the years have complained that it sounds that way (compared to LoudMax for example, which does not sound distressed) and the official response has been that it's been done purposely to alert the DJ that they're pushing too hard (rather than being an effect processor).
 
No, I don't think we ever stated that.
But the difference with compressors is that the limiter in VDJ does not touch the sound at all until it would start clipping.
Most compressors and similar have a band where they start gradually compressing the sound more and more. This can indeed make them sound more pleasant, but the downside is that they start affecting the sound even when no clipping is happening.
 
Adion wrote :
No, I don't think we ever stated that.
But the difference with compressors is that the limiter in VDJ does not touch the sound at all until it would start clipping.
Most compressors and similar have a band where they start gradually compressing the sound more and more. This can indeed make them sound more pleasant, but the downside is that they start affecting the sound even when no clipping is happening.


Yes it's a hard brickwall limiter, which is perfectly fine but a gentle soft clipper beforehand would take VDJs sound engine to the next level, why?

The hard brickwall limiter reacts abruptly when peaks exceed 0 dBFS - especially peaks created by Master Tempo (time-stretching). Time-stretching naturally produces transient overs, and without a soft clipper to gently round them off, those overs cause:

- harsh, audible limiting
- loss of punch and clarity
- pumping when mixing two tracks with Master Tempo

A soft clipper before the limiter would:

- smooth transient overs instead of slamming them
- reduce distortion
- preserve punch and loudness
- make Master Tempo mixes sound more natural and less “crushed”.

It is in my opinion low hanging fruit to bring VDJs sound engine up a serious notch.
 
Bren F wrote :
Time-stretching naturally produces transient overs


This is probably not true overall always - it's dependent on the algorithm and how/how much you are timestretching, but it could extrapolate (slow down)/remove (speed up) based on the last previous amplitude value of frequencies being stretched out/compressed, and not necessarily add to the amplitude.

Compression with smoothing is very opinionated/taste based, and you can achieve that with your VST(s) of choice applied on master.

We shouldn't be playing engage the limiter, but things happen, especially when blending two or more tracks on top of each other so I get why this is viewed as important, but DJs did function largely without this in the pre-software era, using their EQs, mostly without complaints.
 
Was it confirmed that the lyrics on the waveforms were AI generated? If so, that would be a very helpful way of knowing when verses are about to start/end for transitions, and of course, bad language, if you are playing an event where you need to keep it clean.

The use of AI to find music will be really helpful as well. These are working DJ features for sure!
I don't care about the FX. I use a highpass filter, echo out, and a flange for color. What more do you really need?

Really looking forward to this update!
 
Paul McKenzie wrote :
a very helpful way of knowing when verses are about to start/end for transitions, and of course, bad language, if you are playing an event where you need to keep it clean.


So another reason to stare at the screen all night?? lmao!!

What happened to "knowing your music??
 
Paul McKenzie wrote :
Was it confirmed that the lyrics on the waveforms were AI generated?


An easy way to check would be to Google the visible lyrics and see if you get a hit, then compare.

As for the swearing, I'd be concerned it would miss some, or confuse non swearing (i.e "if I can do it") for swearing.
 
Bren F wrote :
Adion wrote :
No, I don't think we ever stated that.
But the difference with compressors is that the limiter in VDJ does not touch the sound at all until it would start clipping.
Most compressors and similar have a band where they start gradually compressing the sound more and more. This can indeed make them sound more pleasant, but the downside is that they start affecting the sound even when no clipping is happening.


Yes it's a hard brickwall limiter, which is perfectly fine but a gentle soft clipper beforehand would take VDJs sound engine to the next level, why?

The hard brickwall limiter reacts abruptly when peaks exceed 0 dBFS - especially peaks created by Master Tempo (time-stretching). Time-stretching naturally produces transient overs, and without a soft clipper to gently round them off, those overs cause:

- harsh, audible limiting
- loss of punch and clarity
- pumping when mixing two tracks with Master Tempo

A soft clipper before the limiter would:

- smooth transient overs instead of slamming them
- reduce distortion
- preserve punch and loudness
- make Master Tempo mixes sound more natural and less “crushed”.

It is in my opinion low hanging fruit to bring VDJs sound engine up a serious notch.


Your Post Should Get You A Plus +100 and probably two More Stars. I have been banging this drum for years!!!!
Albeit in a very different way but with the same goal. My last post about VDJ's Sound engine was unfortunately taken down ( probably because I made comparisons to other software in trying to explain my point). Most of us who comment on this platform only probably want the same thing and that is to get the best version of VDJ we can ever get. At least now i know i am not the only one that feels that this should be Top top priority. ( To a DJ , Sound is Everything). Hopefully with the New Effects coming up , maybe the Audio Engine will also get a tweak or maybe someday we will get an option. Fingers crossed.
 
As I stated earlier (and has been mentioned in threads about the VDJ limiter for years) you can just use a nicer sounding plugin on the master FX slot.
 
groovindj wrote :
As I stated earlier (and has been mentioned in threads about the VDJ limiter for years) you can just use a nicer sounding plugin on the master FX slot.


The last time I used VSTs with VDJ the app would just randomly disappear, I have zero trust in using them with VDJ.

An integrated soft clipper would be far more stable, better optimised (to work with VDJs limiter and any other headroom settings) to work in a transparent way for truly crisp audio.

So I will take my chances with VDJs developers.
 
Depends on the VST I guess (and you don't say what it was) but I use VDJ with the LoudMax VST for a minimum of six hours every weekend with no issues. Don't tar them all with the same brush.
 
Bren F wrote :
groovindj wrote :
As I stated earlier (and has been mentioned in threads about the VDJ limiter for years) you can just use a nicer sounding plugin on the master FX slot.


The last time I used VSTs with VDJ the app would just randomly disappear, I have zero trust in using them with VDJ.

An integrated soft clipper would be far more stable, better optimised (to work with VDJs limiter and any other headroom settings) to work in a transparent way for truly crisp audio.

So I will take my chances with VDJs developers.


Agree 100%. I am not even asking VDJ to force everyone to use it. At least Make it an Option and Let the Users Decide.

I have tried several VST's , from some of the most expensive , top of the line brands . I listed them in my last post and they are miles ahead of Loudmax. My only issue was the fact that it Introduced some Latency. ( I am assuming from all the heavy processing) . But hopefully this will be introduced as a native option for users . That will be heaven sent
 
Bren F wrote :

The last time I used VSTs with VDJ the app would just randomly disappear, I have zero trust in using them with VDJ.


Why didn't you make a Tech Support on this then?

Bren F wrote :

An integrated soft clipper would be far more stable, better optimised (to work with VDJs limiter and any other headroom settings) to work in a transparent way for truly crisp audio.

So I will take my chances with VDJs developers.


I think this is more of a hope than a fact. They can theoretically make more optimizations by including an in house limiter always applied on master (or per deck for external mixer sound setups) but in terms of implementation, there wouldn't be much difference between that and using a compressor on master - it's just potentially bypassing the normal master plugin system to be applied always.
Also, people wouldn't be satisfied with defaults due to different tastes, so you'd want controls for attack, release, knee size, threshold, etc to tune it, and even then there would still be complaints on how it's not as good as Compressor X that someone uses in their DAW work. Not to mention, in external mixer setups, you best hope in a lot of cases (i.e. with no fx send/return path on master) is to apply the effect per channel, which is most likely the wrong thing to do (each track is being compressed then potentially added to each other).

That is probably a reason why the simplist method (no compression st all + give you the option via FX + brickwall limiter) was chosen currently (and other software do the same + give you even less flexibility).

The real take away however is how audio is perceived is subjective - everybody has different feelings about it, and it's hard to satisfy everyone equally.
 

I was talking about a soft clipper on the master channel/bus (before the brick wall limiter), nowhere did anyone mention a compressor except for those who don't know what a soft clipper is and how it works.

It would only require a threshold setting to catch stray peaks caused by time stretching and transient build up while mixing.
 
....but if you're using VDJ within limits (levels set correctly, watching meters etc) there shouldn't be any stray peaks or transient build up.
 
DJ VinylTouch wrote :
Bren F wrote :

The last time I used VSTs with VDJ the app would just randomly disappear, I have zero trust in using them with VDJ.


Why didn't you make a Tech Support on this then?


Make a tech support ticket concerning the behaviour of VDJ with a VST? There's thousands of VSTs and VDJ isn't a DAW, it's unrealistic to expect each of these plugins to work well with VDJ in real time, which is why VDJ make their own plugins? Haven't they just updated the FX? Why would they do that when they could just tell their users to use VSTs?

Telling people to use VSTs is just a cop out.
 
Bren F wrote :
Telling people to use VSTs is just a cop out.


Cars are made to a factory spec. The modding industry is worth millions of dollars so people can get extra trim, features, power.

Using VST is just a "mod" to VirtualDJ, well that's how I see it anyway.
 
groovindj wrote :
....but if you're using VDJ within limits (levels set correctly, watching meters etc) there shouldn't be any stray peaks or transient build up.


Master tempo engaged on one track causes peak surges, check your meters when it's engaged, now add another track when you're mixing for double trouble.

a soft clipper would smooth these peaks in a gentle manner, meaning the limiter in VDJ (or even the venues limiter) is less likely to trigger or if triggered they'd have less work to do.
 
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