Double O
Here’s my post taken from the “A little feedback about VDJ (vs Traktor)” thread http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=5557&page=2
Posted on Tue 27 Jul 04 @ 20:24:55
I posted this response before I purchased VDJ:
“Here’s my unbiased opinion (I don’t own a copy of VDJ or Traktor):
After trying both demos, I give VDJ the edge because of its USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE! I was able to mix with VDJ without reading the instructions. On the other hand, I had a difficult time trying to use Traktor without the instructions. From an 'Old School' perspective, I like VDJ’s uncomplicated and familiar look of virtual vinyl spinning on virtual turntables. Traktor looks very complicated and intimidating to use. I also visited NI’s Traktor forum to find out about bugs. At first, I was surprised to read the numerous problems users were having with Traktor. However, I realized that a software as complicated as Traktor will have many problems. Therefore, VDJ Development Team, PLEASE KEEP VDJ SIMPLE TO USE!”
Although I do agree with you mp3jrick about the default skin needing a more professional appearance, I think DJ Homeboy’s response, “a program that looks simple but out perfoms is better than a confusing interface with no features” is a proper business perspective to have. Most DJ’s can identify with the familiar and simple two turntables and a mixer interface. Therefore, I think VDJ should consider having a design contest to see who can improve the appearance of the default skin, but still keep it simple looking. Consequently, this would be the perfect time to release vbjack’s VDJ Skin Maker software to all VDJ Users:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=5308&page=1
Posted on Tue 27 Jul 04 @ 20:24:55
I posted this response before I purchased VDJ:
“Here’s my unbiased opinion (I don’t own a copy of VDJ or Traktor):
After trying both demos, I give VDJ the edge because of its USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE! I was able to mix with VDJ without reading the instructions. On the other hand, I had a difficult time trying to use Traktor without the instructions. From an 'Old School' perspective, I like VDJ’s uncomplicated and familiar look of virtual vinyl spinning on virtual turntables. Traktor looks very complicated and intimidating to use. I also visited NI’s Traktor forum to find out about bugs. At first, I was surprised to read the numerous problems users were having with Traktor. However, I realized that a software as complicated as Traktor will have many problems. Therefore, VDJ Development Team, PLEASE KEEP VDJ SIMPLE TO USE!”
Although I do agree with you mp3jrick about the default skin needing a more professional appearance, I think DJ Homeboy’s response, “a program that looks simple but out perfoms is better than a confusing interface with no features” is a proper business perspective to have. Most DJ’s can identify with the familiar and simple two turntables and a mixer interface. Therefore, I think VDJ should consider having a design contest to see who can improve the appearance of the default skin, but still keep it simple looking. Consequently, this would be the perfect time to release vbjack’s VDJ Skin Maker software to all VDJ Users:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=5308&page=1
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 7:22 am
mp3jrick
I see no benefit in changing anything that will confuse new users.
I see no difference in difficulty in using one skin over another.
All I wish is to exercise some thought about putting VDJ's best foot forward with a demo skin that looks more professional and less like a toy. Even if you just lose the tone arms and went to graphite, that would be a good start.
Honestly, I see no difference in complexity from one skin to the next beside the placement of some buttons on the screen.
.
I see no difference in difficulty in using one skin over another.
All I wish is to exercise some thought about putting VDJ's best foot forward with a demo skin that looks more professional and less like a toy. Even if you just lose the tone arms and went to graphite, that would be a good start.
Honestly, I see no difference in complexity from one skin to the next beside the placement of some buttons on the screen.
.
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 10:15 am
Double O
mp3jrick: “Even if you just lose the tone arms and went to graphite, that would be a good start.”
Lodewijk’s Graphite skin is a very “good start” in my opinion.
OO
b.t.w. I think the tone arms should stay.
Lodewijk’s Graphite skin is a very “good start” in my opinion.
OO
b.t.w. I think the tone arms should stay.
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 3:49 pm
Double O
Dach: “As far as the trial goes, not being able to test how the program worked with 2 sound cards was a major stumbling block for me.”
This issue is far more important than the interface appearance to me. I almost didn’t buy VDJ because of this issue.
OO
This issue is far more important than the interface appearance to me. I almost didn’t buy VDJ because of this issue.
OO
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 4:11 pm
amazingsounds
To tell you the truth, it was the DEFAULT skin that I LIKED!
I think that's what sold me on VDJ! Why? Because when I showed my wife (who works with me also) and one other DJ, they picked it up in about 2 minutes!!
It's VERY easy to use and very easy to teach.
The only thing I do NOT like about it is that because of the colors (blue/black background) it is very difficult to view in a bright environment (such as outdoors on a sunny day) - even in the shade.
The contrast and small text makes it almost impossible to use unless in a full screen mode at 800x600 which is, well, just ugly.
But I have yet to find a 'skin' that would work really well in a brightly lit environment. Perhaps one that had black TEXT on a WHITE background (like word processors) so that things were easier to read. After all, that's what we are USED to reading (books, newspapers, etc.).
But overall, I like using the default skin and as I said before, it's REALLY easy to teach someone else how to use!
Leaps and bounds above BPM, DJP and others which require so much reading it gives me a headache. :)
DJAlan
I think that's what sold me on VDJ! Why? Because when I showed my wife (who works with me also) and one other DJ, they picked it up in about 2 minutes!!
It's VERY easy to use and very easy to teach.
The only thing I do NOT like about it is that because of the colors (blue/black background) it is very difficult to view in a bright environment (such as outdoors on a sunny day) - even in the shade.
The contrast and small text makes it almost impossible to use unless in a full screen mode at 800x600 which is, well, just ugly.
But I have yet to find a 'skin' that would work really well in a brightly lit environment. Perhaps one that had black TEXT on a WHITE background (like word processors) so that things were easier to read. After all, that's what we are USED to reading (books, newspapers, etc.).
But overall, I like using the default skin and as I said before, it's REALLY easy to teach someone else how to use!
Leaps and bounds above BPM, DJP and others which require so much reading it gives me a headache. :)
DJAlan
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 4:13 pm
digijoc-Mele
@mp3rick
"Honestly, I see no difference in complexity from one skin to the next beside the placement of some buttons on the screen"
I think you are assuming a bit much. If a skin does not use available features, it is less complex. Again, as I mentioned before not everyone has the inclination or patience to deal with a complex GUI. There are more of these type of people than you may realize, who are pro DJs still using vinyl, or the basic features of CD decks, who will be more attracted to a simple GUI before graduating to more complex ones.
The absolute beauty of vDJ is that it's skinability makes it as scalable as you want it to be.
As for the comment about the Basic Skin looking toy-like, well I heard that comment in a Traktor forum way back when I was using Traktor, yet I had the patience to check every lead and realized that vDJ was skinnable and so it was a mute point. The point is, if you are going to come to a conclusion about an application without knowing it's features, it's going to be your loss.
Atomix can gain more marketshare by creating improved demos and gaining access to key industry contacts. Thats where the money is, not in the appearance of 1 of 20 GUIs.
@amazingsounds vDJ Skin ZIP file has .XML files that can be modified for color and Font size to suit your needs... even for bright sunlight. Spend a little time with the file and you'll see what I mean.
"Honestly, I see no difference in complexity from one skin to the next beside the placement of some buttons on the screen"
I think you are assuming a bit much. If a skin does not use available features, it is less complex. Again, as I mentioned before not everyone has the inclination or patience to deal with a complex GUI. There are more of these type of people than you may realize, who are pro DJs still using vinyl, or the basic features of CD decks, who will be more attracted to a simple GUI before graduating to more complex ones.
The absolute beauty of vDJ is that it's skinability makes it as scalable as you want it to be.
As for the comment about the Basic Skin looking toy-like, well I heard that comment in a Traktor forum way back when I was using Traktor, yet I had the patience to check every lead and realized that vDJ was skinnable and so it was a mute point. The point is, if you are going to come to a conclusion about an application without knowing it's features, it's going to be your loss.
Atomix can gain more marketshare by creating improved demos and gaining access to key industry contacts. Thats where the money is, not in the appearance of 1 of 20 GUIs.
@amazingsounds vDJ Skin ZIP file has .XML files that can be modified for color and Font size to suit your needs... even for bright sunlight. Spend a little time with the file and you'll see what I mean.
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 5:07 pm
clax
I think that the default skin should have CBG buttons. The beginners could think that it's not easy to mix with beatlock engaged when the CBG are not correctly assigned.
Except it I like the turntables in the defakut skin.
Except it I like the turntables in the defakut skin.
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 7:04 pm
mp3jrick
Would somebody please explain to me what differences there are between the default skin and say Fruits CDJ 700 skin?
If there were some dead buttons, so what? At least it wouldn't look like something created by an amature.
I just do not see all the ruckus over cleaning up a skin a little to make it more professional looking.
The tone arms look rediculous BTW and serve no purpose at all, so why get hung up on it?
Somewhere between the Mixmeister mess and the florecents of OTS and DJP lie the clean, the proud the classy. VDJ has the horsepower of a top fuel dragster.
A little garnish goes a long way to making something more appealing, ask any gourmet chef.
If there were some dead buttons, so what? At least it wouldn't look like something created by an amature.
I just do not see all the ruckus over cleaning up a skin a little to make it more professional looking.
The tone arms look rediculous BTW and serve no purpose at all, so why get hung up on it?
Somewhere between the Mixmeister mess and the florecents of OTS and DJP lie the clean, the proud the classy. VDJ has the horsepower of a top fuel dragster.
A little garnish goes a long way to making something more appealing, ask any gourmet chef.
Mensajes Thu 23 Sep 04 @ 11:37 pm
bagpuss
I love these forums because they are so light, although they often get very indepth and argumentative..
It's just a shame we didn't all share a passion for something a little more important in life...
Come on guys there's gotta be more to life than music software and woman?...
hehe, only joking :)
It's just a shame we didn't all share a passion for something a little more important in life...
Come on guys there's gotta be more to life than music software and woman?...
hehe, only joking :)
Mensajes Fri 24 Sep 04 @ 12:05 am
Dach
I think the CDJ700 skin would be too intimidating for someone starting out. It's kinda like Reason. Sure it's powerful, but if your eyes glaze over at the complexity of the thing, it can be a turnoff. I may someday decide I need all those extra features, but in the meantime, it doesn't seem like there's too steep a learning curve.
Däch
http://www.closedcaskets.com/
Däch
http://www.closedcaskets.com/
Mensajes Fri 24 Sep 04 @ 8:51 am
mp3jrick
@ Dach "I think the CDJ700 skin would be too intimidating for someone starting out. It's kinda like Reason. Sure it's powerful, but if your eyes glaze over at the complexity of the thing, it can be a turnoff. I may someday decide I need all those extra features, but in the meantime, it doesn't seem like there's too steep a learning curve."
This is exactly my point Dach.
Marketing to noobs starting out with glazed over eyes with simplistic features and instead of attracting professionals (possibly turning off) who are not at all intimidated with cd deck features, is silly.
There isn't nothing at all intimidating about the 700, in fact I have been on it from day one. The record cases are all the same, the config is the same, the clocks are the same, the play and cue button is the same. Functionally I see nothing at all intimidating or all that different. Your point is moot.
I see nothing at all wrong with a few dead effects buttons until the program is licenced, let them wonder.
In the meanwhile, it is a time of transition for many who have stood by for years and are now contemplated changing over to the digital mp3 age.
THEY ARE SHOPPING RIGHT NOW.
Many who have been scared off by the stability and lack of PC skill are re thinking things. THESE are the people who VDJ should be courting. Not the dorm DJ's with the 10's of thousands of illegal mp3s that they ripped off the net.
The demo skin is Nickelodeon class, lets bring it up to speed.
First glance by a professional is a laugh. And that is direct feedback from referrals I have made.
90% of those converting are coming from cd decks, not vinyl. Giving them a familiar cd deck interface right up front is going to help them "feel" the program. Within seconds they will be playing and mixing.
But hey, thats just my own opinion which some here agree with.
This is exactly my point Dach.
Marketing to noobs starting out with glazed over eyes with simplistic features and instead of attracting professionals (possibly turning off) who are not at all intimidated with cd deck features, is silly.
There isn't nothing at all intimidating about the 700, in fact I have been on it from day one. The record cases are all the same, the config is the same, the clocks are the same, the play and cue button is the same. Functionally I see nothing at all intimidating or all that different. Your point is moot.
I see nothing at all wrong with a few dead effects buttons until the program is licenced, let them wonder.
In the meanwhile, it is a time of transition for many who have stood by for years and are now contemplated changing over to the digital mp3 age.
THEY ARE SHOPPING RIGHT NOW.
Many who have been scared off by the stability and lack of PC skill are re thinking things. THESE are the people who VDJ should be courting. Not the dorm DJ's with the 10's of thousands of illegal mp3s that they ripped off the net.
The demo skin is Nickelodeon class, lets bring it up to speed.
First glance by a professional is a laugh. And that is direct feedback from referrals I have made.
90% of those converting are coming from cd decks, not vinyl. Giving them a familiar cd deck interface right up front is going to help them "feel" the program. Within seconds they will be playing and mixing.
But hey, thats just my own opinion which some here agree with.
Mensajes Fri 24 Sep 04 @ 11:13 am
Double O
Mp3jrick: “The tone arms look rediculous BTW and serve no purpose at all, so why get hung up on it?”
The tone arms are no more ridiculous than this purposeless thread you started. When considering your initial and continual derogatory remarks about the default skin, I have to applaud the VDJ Staff and Moderating Team for tolerating your negative comments. Although many who have posted agree with you (including me), I don’t think it’s necessary to continue using terms such as: “ugliest interface, awfull, sh!thouse, a toy, ridiculous, Nickelodeon class,” etc…to express your concern about the appearance of the default skin. If these are the only type of adjectives that you can come up with to express yourself then let me refer you here: http://www.wordchoice.com/freelance-writing-home.htm
OO
b.t.w. I’ve read similar purposeless post by you in the PCDJ Forums:
http://message.pcdj.com/showthread.php?s=7dd2963faf7ae14d355ad0f9f4b2001c&threadid=5864&perpage=15&highlight=mp3jrick&pagenumber=3
The tone arms are no more ridiculous than this purposeless thread you started. When considering your initial and continual derogatory remarks about the default skin, I have to applaud the VDJ Staff and Moderating Team for tolerating your negative comments. Although many who have posted agree with you (including me), I don’t think it’s necessary to continue using terms such as: “ugliest interface, awfull, sh!thouse, a toy, ridiculous, Nickelodeon class,” etc…to express your concern about the appearance of the default skin. If these are the only type of adjectives that you can come up with to express yourself then let me refer you here: http://www.wordchoice.com/freelance-writing-home.htm
OO
b.t.w. I’ve read similar purposeless post by you in the PCDJ Forums:
http://message.pcdj.com/showthread.php?s=7dd2963faf7ae14d355ad0f9f4b2001c&threadid=5864&perpage=15&highlight=mp3jrick&pagenumber=3
Mensajes Fri 24 Sep 04 @ 6:20 pm
mp3jrick
DO,
Well that was a choice move man....
You don't know me from Jack, so lets not stereotype my posts, I call it like I see it. I am in regular communication within Visiosonic, and they seem to value my participation enough to allow me back despite the derailment a while back.
Well enough for them to send me a comp copy of VRM and 1st peek at the video plug in when it comes, you firgure it out.
No it hasn't been pretty, but it is all water under the bridge between us.
You will never know just how far back some of those difficulties went my friend.
And frankly if you're here using VDJ it suggests some kind of simular dissatisfaction.
The only difference is I speak up.
My suggestion was intended to be positive.
Others here turned it into an argument to which I responded.
I have closed my posts expressing that it was my own opinion as is anybody's right here.
I have complimented those who have designed skins more than once on these boards.
Sorry you don't appreciate my choice of adjectives I stand behind them unfortunately.
I have nothing but praise for VDJ. If you travel the net you know that by my posts. I call it like I see it.....good or bad.
I just wish the demo was as I have expressed, end of story.
I am off to a weekend gig now.
Do us all a favor and let this fall off the page.
The point was made and recieved, the decision lies elsewhere now.
Well that was a choice move man....
You don't know me from Jack, so lets not stereotype my posts, I call it like I see it. I am in regular communication within Visiosonic, and they seem to value my participation enough to allow me back despite the derailment a while back.
Well enough for them to send me a comp copy of VRM and 1st peek at the video plug in when it comes, you firgure it out.
No it hasn't been pretty, but it is all water under the bridge between us.
You will never know just how far back some of those difficulties went my friend.
And frankly if you're here using VDJ it suggests some kind of simular dissatisfaction.
The only difference is I speak up.
My suggestion was intended to be positive.
Others here turned it into an argument to which I responded.
I have closed my posts expressing that it was my own opinion as is anybody's right here.
I have complimented those who have designed skins more than once on these boards.
Sorry you don't appreciate my choice of adjectives I stand behind them unfortunately.
I have nothing but praise for VDJ. If you travel the net you know that by my posts. I call it like I see it.....good or bad.
I just wish the demo was as I have expressed, end of story.
I am off to a weekend gig now.
Do us all a favor and let this fall off the page.
The point was made and recieved, the decision lies elsewhere now.
Mensajes Fri 24 Sep 04 @ 6:45 pm
Double O
Mp3jrick: “You will never know just how far back some of those difficulties went my friend.
And frankly if you're here using VDJ it suggests some kind of simular dissatisfaction.
The only difference is I speak up.”
I do know about difficult times with VISIO software “my friend”. I’ve been using the software since the PCDJ Phat days. I was banned from their forum on several different occasions because I also spoke up. However, that was then and this is now. I’ve learned that there is nothing wrong with speaking up, but it is wrong to insult the product of a company on its own forum. All I'm trying to say mp3jrick is why not present any additional comments you may have with the same “professional” appearance that you want the default skin to have.
OO
And frankly if you're here using VDJ it suggests some kind of simular dissatisfaction.
The only difference is I speak up.”
I do know about difficult times with VISIO software “my friend”. I’ve been using the software since the PCDJ Phat days. I was banned from their forum on several different occasions because I also spoke up. However, that was then and this is now. I’ve learned that there is nothing wrong with speaking up, but it is wrong to insult the product of a company on its own forum. All I'm trying to say mp3jrick is why not present any additional comments you may have with the same “professional” appearance that you want the default skin to have.
OO
Mensajes Fri 24 Sep 04 @ 7:06 pm
DJ Cyder
Wow!
I didn't like the default skin either, but none were lost in war here anyway.
perhaps vdj could do a few things to make it better by giving an option upon install. Easy, novice (the new default skin) Hard (pro) cdj 700 or mixstation skins.
I didn't like the default skin either, but none were lost in war here anyway.
perhaps vdj could do a few things to make it better by giving an option upon install. Easy, novice (the new default skin) Hard (pro) cdj 700 or mixstation skins.
Mensajes Sat 25 Sep 04 @ 11:08 am
TileTom
Rick & Jason,
I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
Mensajes Sat 25 Sep 04 @ 5:18 pm
Double O
Tomsound1:
I remember you from the PCDJ Forums without the 1 after your name. It's good to be reacquainted with another former forum member. With all the PCDJ members that are now here, we might have to change the meaning of VDJ to "Visio Deserting Jockeys."
OO
b.t.w. To anyone who purchased VDJ but doesn't like the default skin, it looked "good" enough to get your $$$.
I remember you from the PCDJ Forums without the 1 after your name. It's good to be reacquainted with another former forum member. With all the PCDJ members that are now here, we might have to change the meaning of VDJ to "Visio Deserting Jockeys."
OO
b.t.w. To anyone who purchased VDJ but doesn't like the default skin, it looked "good" enough to get your $$$.
Mensajes Sat 25 Sep 04 @ 6:24 pm
TileTom
1) I certainly didn't purchase the application based on
its' looks. Far from it. I bought it after discussing the
potential with users like Jason & Rick. As Rick said, the
tonearm decor appeals primarily to kids who d/l (steal)
their music, and not the myriad CD deck jocks who are
desserting the other company offerings and coming
over to VDJ. The CD deck skins cover this aspect (for
me anyway).
2) I favor Jason's ideas regarding installation options.
3) IMHO, it's a harder sell to pro DJ's when they see
the tonearm skin. It's only after they get past the F/P
look, that we see the capacity/potential/useability of
the app.
The above comments are simply MY opinions and I
don't care to continue any pissing matches about it.
Thank you ATOMIX for creating and constantly
improving upon this great program!
its' looks. Far from it. I bought it after discussing the
potential with users like Jason & Rick. As Rick said, the
tonearm decor appeals primarily to kids who d/l (steal)
their music, and not the myriad CD deck jocks who are
desserting the other company offerings and coming
over to VDJ. The CD deck skins cover this aspect (for
me anyway).
2) I favor Jason's ideas regarding installation options.
3) IMHO, it's a harder sell to pro DJ's when they see
the tonearm skin. It's only after they get past the F/P
look, that we see the capacity/potential/useability of
the app.
The above comments are simply MY opinions and I
don't care to continue any pissing matches about it.
Thank you ATOMIX for creating and constantly
improving upon this great program!
Mensajes Sun 26 Sep 04 @ 2:50 pm
Double O
Tomsound1: “As Rick said, the tonearm decor appeals primarily to kids who d/l (steal) their music, and not the myriad CD deck jocks who are desserting the other company offerings and coming over to VDJ.”
Since there is no way to substantiate your assumption, I will have to disagree with it. I doubt that “kids [and many adults] who d/l (steal) their music” would legally purchase VDJ because “the tonearm decor appeals” to them. Furthermore, removing the tone arms from the default skin would lessen its appeal even more—it would be awkward to look at turntables without tone arms. Lodewijk’s Graphite skin is a good improvement that includes the tone arms.
Tomsound1: “The above comments are simply MY opinions and I don't care to continue any pissing matches about it.”
I don’t understand this reply when considering the fact that nobody has started a “pissing” match with you regarding this issue. There are many positive comments and suggestions contained in this thread. Consequently, this thread can be very useful if additional comments and suggestions are presented constructively.
OO
Since there is no way to substantiate your assumption, I will have to disagree with it. I doubt that “kids [and many adults] who d/l (steal) their music” would legally purchase VDJ because “the tonearm decor appeals” to them. Furthermore, removing the tone arms from the default skin would lessen its appeal even more—it would be awkward to look at turntables without tone arms. Lodewijk’s Graphite skin is a good improvement that includes the tone arms.
Tomsound1: “The above comments are simply MY opinions and I don't care to continue any pissing matches about it.”
I don’t understand this reply when considering the fact that nobody has started a “pissing” match with you regarding this issue. There are many positive comments and suggestions contained in this thread. Consequently, this thread can be very useful if additional comments and suggestions are presented constructively.
OO
Mensajes Sun 26 Sep 04 @ 10:55 pm
bagpuss
ok ok, lets tone this thread down a little please (no pun, hehe)
but come on guys, There's more in life to worry about, sure your not worrying, but some here just sound so damn passionate about the smallest issues known to man..,
watch sky news for an hour, then come back here and be nice. :)
I don't intend to be rude I assure you ;).
regards
but come on guys, There's more in life to worry about, sure your not worrying, but some here just sound so damn passionate about the smallest issues known to man..,
watch sky news for an hour, then come back here and be nice. :)
I don't intend to be rude I assure you ;).
regards
Mensajes Mon 27 Sep 04 @ 12:36 am
