VDJ Ron
bigron1 wrote :
You're aware that a projector lamps life is determined by it reaching 50% of it's original brightness?
Not to mention the diminished brightness due to dust.
Yes
People have been projecting great images for a very long time, the important thing is that the equipment is 100% functional, and suited to its task.
bigron1 wrote :
I'm of the opinion spandex is unsuitable for rear projection, however there are many types.
Do you get the horrible hotspot using spandex as a rear projection material?
No, but that may be do to my positioning of the projector. Lycra spandex is the most popular projection screen material I see for mobile work.
You did mention that your light source would bleed through using spandex, that means you get a hotspot.
bigron1 wrote :
EU fire regulations seem to be vastly superior to those of the USA.
Our shops are subjected to strict legislation.
A shower curtain which is a fire hazard is not acceptable.
I wouldn't be able to properly comment without knowing the material.
But you have commented, and been judgmental.
bigron1 wrote :
I started off with cheap 200w rms speakers long ago, now I have quite expensive Peavey Impulse 1012 500w rms tops.
You used the vastly cheaper Peavey budget equivalents!
I'm not sure why you brought this up. But, I feel the tone and comments are degrading, as well as exaggerated. I would assume you are referring to my Peavey PR-12's. The Impulse 1012's are made with a lot of the same components. They also only get a small amount louder with program levels. Both speakers need a little EQ to sound proper, but they do not sound vastly different then each other. They are both entry level budget cabinets. While jumping from a $205 speaker to a $320 speaker is a bit of a price jump, your pretty much getting an upgraded woofer. Still not a quite expensive speaker versus a vastly cheaper speaker. I would also consider my $670 Yamaha sub and my 4 Mackie SRM450's entry level.
We're mobile DJ's subject to many constraints, finance and mobility being just two.
The PR12's are not in the same class as the 1012's.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVIMP1012
List:$579.99
Savings:$110.04 (19%)
$469.95
1000w program 2000w peak
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPR12N
List:$399.99
Savings:$170.00 (43%)
$229.99
400 watts program, 800 watts peak
I brought this up to indicate we all make compromises, including you!
You're aware that a projector lamps life is determined by it reaching 50% of it's original brightness?
Not to mention the diminished brightness due to dust.
Yes
People have been projecting great images for a very long time, the important thing is that the equipment is 100% functional, and suited to its task.
bigron1 wrote :
I'm of the opinion spandex is unsuitable for rear projection, however there are many types.
Do you get the horrible hotspot using spandex as a rear projection material?
No, but that may be do to my positioning of the projector. Lycra spandex is the most popular projection screen material I see for mobile work.
You did mention that your light source would bleed through using spandex, that means you get a hotspot.
bigron1 wrote :
EU fire regulations seem to be vastly superior to those of the USA.
Our shops are subjected to strict legislation.
A shower curtain which is a fire hazard is not acceptable.
I wouldn't be able to properly comment without knowing the material.
But you have commented, and been judgmental.
bigron1 wrote :
I started off with cheap 200w rms speakers long ago, now I have quite expensive Peavey Impulse 1012 500w rms tops.
You used the vastly cheaper Peavey budget equivalents!
I'm not sure why you brought this up. But, I feel the tone and comments are degrading, as well as exaggerated. I would assume you are referring to my Peavey PR-12's. The Impulse 1012's are made with a lot of the same components. They also only get a small amount louder with program levels. Both speakers need a little EQ to sound proper, but they do not sound vastly different then each other. They are both entry level budget cabinets. While jumping from a $205 speaker to a $320 speaker is a bit of a price jump, your pretty much getting an upgraded woofer. Still not a quite expensive speaker versus a vastly cheaper speaker. I would also consider my $670 Yamaha sub and my 4 Mackie SRM450's entry level.
We're mobile DJ's subject to many constraints, finance and mobility being just two.
The PR12's are not in the same class as the 1012's.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVIMP1012
List:$579.99
Savings:$110.04 (19%)
$469.95
1000w program 2000w peak
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPR12N
List:$399.99
Savings:$170.00 (43%)
$229.99
400 watts program, 800 watts peak
I brought this up to indicate we all make compromises, including you!
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 11:38 am
blckjck
bigron1 wrote :
You did mention that your light source would bleed through using spandex, that means you get a hotspot.
The light source bleed through comment was for people to be aware that other light sources such as sun light, exit lights, etc. can bleed through. So, when setting up a projector screen by a small window, you may need to have a thicker material such as a back drop or a roll down screen with a black backing.
bigron1 wrote :
But you have commented, and been judgmental.
I was not commenting on the specific materials you were using since I do not know what they are. I was commenting that here, on this side of the pond, plastic shower liners that are available at local consumer stores are not a good option and should not be recommended. Since you have titled this as a beginners thread, those things should be brought up. I would imagine that you have seen the videos of club fires where the backdrops have gone up in flames. A beginner should be made aware to use safe materials. So, since you may not have been aware those are available here, I was trying to be informative and not judgmental.
bigron1 wrote :
We're mobile DJ's subject to many constraints, finance and mobility being just two.
The PR12's are not in the same class as the 1012's.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVIMP1012
List:$579.99
Savings:$110.04 (19%)
$469.95
1000w program 2000w peak
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPR12N
List:$399.99
Savings:$170.00 (43%)
$229.99
400 watts program, 800 watts peak
I brought this up to indicate we all make compromises, including you!
The PR12's are not in the same class as the 1012's.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVIMP1012
List:$579.99
Savings:$110.04 (19%)
$469.95
1000w program 2000w peak
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPR12N
List:$399.99
Savings:$170.00 (43%)
$229.99
400 watts program, 800 watts peak
I brought this up to indicate we all make compromises, including you!
I never said don't make compromises. I never said that I don't. I have always worked within a tight budget.
I was incorrect on the advertised price of the 1012, I had pulled up the zzounds listing for a blemished speaker. That is where I got $320
I still stand by the statement that they are both entry level cabinets. They both have a muddy bass due to the flexing of the plastic cabinet.
Now, there are improvements to the 1012 like the black widow woofer that allow the speaker to reach higher SPL's. It is a better speaker then the PR12. And, I was not trashing your equipment. I would still recommend the PR's to someone starting out. I would also recommend a beginner look at used gear. Entry level pro gear is still better then consumer gear trying to reach pro level. And that has been my point.
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 4:13 pm
VDJ Ron
I don't really want to get into a squabble (I must be under weather lol).
Have you tried a shower curtain?
There are many types, and I'm sure there not all fire hazards.
If various back lights bleed through your spandex screen, then a projector is going to blow a huge hole.
My spandex screen also suffered from a star type ray effect.
It was difficult to setup because of the hotspot, positioning is critical.
I don't regard spandex as being suitable for rear projection, and for front projection I'd use a screen of the Nobo type with a skirt.
This is an important topic.
I've only done one party using rear projection, I'll be doing two more this weekend, and will be able to draw more accurate conclusions.
Note:
Both speakers in question are 5 star rated, the PR12's are indeed a good choice for a new DJ.
Have you tried a shower curtain?
There are many types, and I'm sure there not all fire hazards.
If various back lights bleed through your spandex screen, then a projector is going to blow a huge hole.
My spandex screen also suffered from a star type ray effect.
It was difficult to setup because of the hotspot, positioning is critical.
I don't regard spandex as being suitable for rear projection, and for front projection I'd use a screen of the Nobo type with a skirt.
This is an important topic.
I've only done one party using rear projection, I'll be doing two more this weekend, and will be able to draw more accurate conclusions.
Note:
Both speakers in question are 5 star rated, the PR12's are indeed a good choice for a new DJ.
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 4:52 pm
blckjck
bigron1 wrote :
Have you tried a shower curtain?
There are many types, and I'm sure there not all fire hazards.
There are many types, and I'm sure there not all fire hazards.
I have not tried one for projection, but I saw one go up fast when someone threw it on a fire. You could try setting one of your torn ones on fire and see.
bigron1 wrote :
If various back lights bleed through your spandex screen, then a projector is going to blow a huge hole.
My spandex screen also suffered from a star type ray effect.
It was difficult to setup because of the hotspot, positioning is critical.
I don't regard spandex as being suitable for rear projection, and for front projection I'd use a screen of the Nobo type with a skirt.
My spandex screen also suffered from a star type ray effect.
It was difficult to setup because of the hotspot, positioning is critical.
I don't regard spandex as being suitable for rear projection, and for front projection I'd use a screen of the Nobo type with a skirt.
I don't know when I'll next have the time and venue space to rear project. Because my projector is not a short throw, it won't fill the 16ft screen without almost being that far back. Also, it is not a bright projector. I'm not going to rent a short throw really bright projector just to test. I'll see if I can find a reason to try at my local test spot. Maybe I can talk them into a movie night.
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 6:04 pm
groovindj
blckjck wrote :
You could try setting one of your torn ones on fire and see.
He's better at melting them with an iron! :-)
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 6:15 pm
VDJ Ron
lol.. true.
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 6:18 pm
VDJ Ron
Comments required...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1EdN5nJYdg
+
While all organic materials (that is, anything containing carbon) will ignite if exposed to a high enough temperature, vinyl is more difficult than many other materials to ignite because it is composed mainly of polyvinyl chloride, more commonly known as PVC, which is inherently flame retardant due to its chlorine base.
This means PVC won’t ignite, even from another flame, until it reaches about 730°F (387°C), and won’t self-ignite until 850°F (454°C). Those ignition temperatures are significantly higher than common framing lumber, which ignites from a flame at 500°F (260°C) and self-ignites at 770°F (410°C).
In addition, results from the ASTM E162 test show that PVC has one of the lowest flame spread ratings of the materials tested, meaning that it won’t typically contribute to the spread of fire.
Finally, ASTM D2863 tests show that rigid PVC’s high Limiting Oxygen Index means that it needs unusually high amounts of oxygen to burn and stay burning. Rigid PVC (vinyl siding) will not independently sustain combustion in air with a normal concentration of oxygen (about 21 percent) — so it extinguishes relatively easily.
I doubt any type of spandex can do much better.
Perhaps most screens would burn on a fire?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1EdN5nJYdg
+
While all organic materials (that is, anything containing carbon) will ignite if exposed to a high enough temperature, vinyl is more difficult than many other materials to ignite because it is composed mainly of polyvinyl chloride, more commonly known as PVC, which is inherently flame retardant due to its chlorine base.
This means PVC won’t ignite, even from another flame, until it reaches about 730°F (387°C), and won’t self-ignite until 850°F (454°C). Those ignition temperatures are significantly higher than common framing lumber, which ignites from a flame at 500°F (260°C) and self-ignites at 770°F (410°C).
In addition, results from the ASTM E162 test show that PVC has one of the lowest flame spread ratings of the materials tested, meaning that it won’t typically contribute to the spread of fire.
Finally, ASTM D2863 tests show that rigid PVC’s high Limiting Oxygen Index means that it needs unusually high amounts of oxygen to burn and stay burning. Rigid PVC (vinyl siding) will not independently sustain combustion in air with a normal concentration of oxygen (about 21 percent) — so it extinguishes relatively easily.
I doubt any type of spandex can do much better.
Perhaps most screens would burn on a fire?
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 7:10 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Starting to look like a "my ----- is bigger then yours" thread fellas........
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 8:15 pm
VDJ Ron
In the tumble dryer hose video I think there may be silver gaffa tape around the far end which ignites?
I've been googling fire hazards and pvc with little success.
I've been googling fire hazards and pvc with little success.
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 9:11 pm
VDJ Ron
@tycoonentertainmentcanada you have got me thinking.
I can pick up Epson projectors quite cheap on ebay.
A stack of 4 Epson X6 @1750 (eco mode) would be 7000 lumen.
That's more than I'll ever need!
In fact just a stack of 2 would do fine.
It would be an interesting experiment.
My venues only hold around 400 people max.
Hm..a built in backup plan, if one fails, then turn the other up to full power.
I can pick up Epson projectors quite cheap on ebay.
A stack of 4 Epson X6 @1750 (eco mode) would be 7000 lumen.
That's more than I'll ever need!
In fact just a stack of 2 would do fine.
It would be an interesting experiment.
My venues only hold around 400 people max.
Hm..a built in backup plan, if one fails, then turn the other up to full power.
Mensajes Tue 07 Jun 16 @ 9:53 pm
VDJ Ron
I'm back again.
Tonight I used the Asda £4 shower curtain.
The bride described her wedding pictures as perfect!
I burnt myself setting fire to the shower curtain material.
Using a gas cooker it burnt, and melted like a candle on my hand.
Cue comments from guess who?
I then dropped the material and it went out immediately.
I have no conclusions to offer for the moment.
Tonight I used the Asda £4 shower curtain.
The bride described her wedding pictures as perfect!
I burnt myself setting fire to the shower curtain material.
Using a gas cooker it burnt, and melted like a candle on my hand.
Cue comments from guess who?
I then dropped the material and it went out immediately.
I have no conclusions to offer for the moment.
Mensajes Sun 12 Jun 16 @ 2:08 am
tayla
Conclusion... Don't play with fire.. You'll get burnt!
Mensajes Sun 12 Jun 16 @ 9:08 am
VDJ Ron
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Snap-Eyelets-for-Groundsheet-Tarpaulin-Awning-Blue-Plastic-Self-Sealing-Grommets-/301155439268?hash=item461e4352a4:g:eXQAAOSwfC9XPGhD
The above are the eyelets I used, they worked well, however I had to remove the side eyelets so as to avoid damage during transport. I just rolled it on a piece of plastic pipe.
The above are the eyelets I used, they worked well, however I had to remove the side eyelets so as to avoid damage during transport. I just rolled it on a piece of plastic pipe.
Mensajes Mon 13 Jun 16 @ 2:03 pm
Tim Bennett
I use something like these, http://www.pl-outdoor.com/en/71-Tents/75-Accessories/78-Rubber-Bands-Ropes-etc-/detail/4204/Holdon-MIDI-Clip-on-Eyelets-4-pieces.html with a spandex screen. These eyelets allow for more flexibility in my mounting points.
Mensajes Mon 13 Jun 16 @ 6:21 pm
VDJ Ron
It's time to pass a few more comments.
The Epsom lamp which cost £22 was not perfect.
During normal running, at both the low, and high brightness, the projector cuts out.
All was good using the high altitude setting which provides extra cooling!
I have watched a lot of TV, and passed the 500 hour mark.
This lamp may be a little brighter than it's meant to be..I can live with that.
Last Saturday my shower curtain performed well on the members Captain's night in a recently refurbished golf club .
I had the option of using the club's excellent large screen wall mounted TV, but I opted to test the shower curtain.
Given this club is used to me using their TV I was a little apprehensive.
Checking with the bar staff they said "it was OK", and at the end of the evening the 1st team captain said "it was brilliant".
Also the club chairman looked pleased.
Anyway, my shower curtain has been moved into history by the arrival of my rear projection screen from China.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-16-9-Portable-Folding-PVC-Projector-Back-Behind-Rear-Projection-Screen-Film-/152123116654?hash=item236b3e8c6e:g:4aIAAOSwLnBXWjHR
I tried it last night, the combination of screen/projector was dimmer than I wanted, however with the arrival of twilight the picture became excellent!
It goes to work this Friday.
The material is grey, matte on one side, and gloss on the other.
I believe that the matte side faces the audience.
Unlike spandex which suffers from hotspot problems, this new screen was good, as was my shower curtain.
For securing the screen I have just ordered 20 x 8" Bungee Ball Cord Loop Shock Cords.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-Bungee-Ball-Cord-Loop-Shock-Cords-Easy-Fix-Ties-Tarp-Trailer-Canopy-Boat-/172186433712?var=&hash=item28171c78b0:m:mtpaM5yqSMsVQeHSmasfz2A
Below is the front projection screen I use for smaller jobs..it's very mobile.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobo-Professional-Tripod-Projection-Screen-Home-Theatre-Home-Cinema-Screen-16-/111925595185?hash=item1a0f490c31:g:0osAAOSwYlJW2Vu-
One screen is not enough to deal with a wide range of work.
I may take a variety of screens to a job, the thing being that rear projection in my case needs the projector to be 10-12 feet behind the screen, I often use a add on room or cupboard for projector placement.
If I don't have the space I use front projection from my DJ table, and have a smaller picture.
The Epsom lamp which cost £22 was not perfect.
During normal running, at both the low, and high brightness, the projector cuts out.
All was good using the high altitude setting which provides extra cooling!
I have watched a lot of TV, and passed the 500 hour mark.
This lamp may be a little brighter than it's meant to be..I can live with that.
Last Saturday my shower curtain performed well on the members Captain's night in a recently refurbished golf club .
I had the option of using the club's excellent large screen wall mounted TV, but I opted to test the shower curtain.
Given this club is used to me using their TV I was a little apprehensive.
Checking with the bar staff they said "it was OK", and at the end of the evening the 1st team captain said "it was brilliant".
Also the club chairman looked pleased.
Anyway, my shower curtain has been moved into history by the arrival of my rear projection screen from China.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-16-9-Portable-Folding-PVC-Projector-Back-Behind-Rear-Projection-Screen-Film-/152123116654?hash=item236b3e8c6e:g:4aIAAOSwLnBXWjHR
I tried it last night, the combination of screen/projector was dimmer than I wanted, however with the arrival of twilight the picture became excellent!
It goes to work this Friday.
The material is grey, matte on one side, and gloss on the other.
I believe that the matte side faces the audience.
Unlike spandex which suffers from hotspot problems, this new screen was good, as was my shower curtain.
For securing the screen I have just ordered 20 x 8" Bungee Ball Cord Loop Shock Cords.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-Bungee-Ball-Cord-Loop-Shock-Cords-Easy-Fix-Ties-Tarp-Trailer-Canopy-Boat-/172186433712?var=&hash=item28171c78b0:m:mtpaM5yqSMsVQeHSmasfz2A
Below is the front projection screen I use for smaller jobs..it's very mobile.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobo-Professional-Tripod-Projection-Screen-Home-Theatre-Home-Cinema-Screen-16-/111925595185?hash=item1a0f490c31:g:0osAAOSwYlJW2Vu-
One screen is not enough to deal with a wide range of work.
I may take a variety of screens to a job, the thing being that rear projection in my case needs the projector to be 10-12 feet behind the screen, I often use a add on room or cupboard for projector placement.
If I don't have the space I use front projection from my DJ table, and have a smaller picture.
Mensajes Tue 19 Jul 16 @ 12:21 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
I'd say now that you've got your screens all worked out it might be time for a better projector, preferably an Ultra Short Throw.
I'm sure you already know but with the money you spent on testing different products out you could of took our advice and just did it right the first time.
We are here to help you Ron (thumbs up).
I'm sure you already know but with the money you spent on testing different products out you could of took our advice and just did it right the first time.
We are here to help you Ron (thumbs up).
Mensajes Tue 19 Jul 16 @ 8:22 pm
tayla
Don't believe them Ron, all these American do-gooders are just trying to stifle your Great British ingenuity!
Mensajes Tue 19 Jul 16 @ 8:49 pm
VDJ Ron
Tayla.....they have a lot of poor people in the USA.
In an attempt to help my effort is directed at those with little.
This is independent of location.
You're right Beatbreaker....I'm looking for a high powered, short throw projector.
I often do quite big venues.
All in good time.
For the moment my cheap Epson has got the ball rolling.
It will one day be a backup projector.
It should be noted that we all operate at different levels, I suspect a shower curtain is perfect for many venues.
In an attempt to help my effort is directed at those with little.
This is independent of location.
You're right Beatbreaker....I'm looking for a high powered, short throw projector.
I often do quite big venues.
All in good time.
For the moment my cheap Epson has got the ball rolling.
It will one day be a backup projector.
It should be noted that we all operate at different levels, I suspect a shower curtain is perfect for many venues.
Mensajes Tue 19 Jul 16 @ 10:19 pm