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Tópico: Sound set up - Page: 1

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Hi Forum members,

Just looking to pick your brains on set up a new PA system. I recently did a booking in a concert hall twice the size of anything i have ever done (Holds 600 people) - took my regular set up that I have used for past 6 years (Prosound speakers & amp - See stats below), & I must have been pushing the sound too hard to fill the room, because they were complaining they couldn't hear the music. Ended up blowing a speaker half way through the night, & managed to survive on the one left.

I was back again the following night, so had to source a set of speakers. I purchased a pair of Behringer Eurolive B1520 speakers & used them that night. Lovely punchy sound on them, but again the regulars were complaining that it was quiet ! - God knows what sound level that have been used too in the past.

My question is, they have asked me to invest in some subwoofers (Bassbins) I know i'm going to have to upgrade my amp, & have been looking into this & wonder whether or not to include a crossover as well.

Specifications of Prosound speaker
Impedance :8Ω Frequency response: 50Hz - 18kHz Sensitivity (1W @ 1m): 96dB
Connector type: 2 x Speakon Programme power: 500Wmax
Power handling: 250Wrms

Specifications of Prosound Power Amp
4Ω stereo:2 x 500Wrms :8Ω stereo 2 x 250Wrms 8Ω bridged::1 x 800Wrms Max power: 1600Wmax @ 8Ω
Frequency range: 20Hz - 20Khz S/N ratio: >90dB


Liinks to Behringer range :

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B1520.aspx - Speakers
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/CX2310.aspx - Crossover
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/VP1800S.aspx - Subwoofer
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/EPX2800.aspx - Power Amp
 
Mensajes Thu 18 Apr 13 @ 7:29 am
Your system is too small for this venue. Also, your amp is too small for your speakers. Your speakers can handle 250 watts of clean power all night. They are also capable of handling much more, in the form of momentary peaks. I don't know what that is, but you should know what the peak power is. Your amp can deliver 250 watts of clean power, continuously. However, music is not continuous, it also has peaks. Your amp will produce more than 250 watts, but anything above that is distorted. That is what blows your speakers. I would suggest a 400 or 500 watt amp, for your speakers. At any rate, your system is incapable of doing such a big room. Even if you added two more 8 ohm speakers, you would still be taxing your amp to it's maximum. If you actually have six hundred people, my minimum would be four 450 watt tops, and four 500 watt bottoms. The tops have to be ear level or above. I do not try to fill the room, but fill the dance floor. The same goes for less people, in a large room. Always have more than you need.
 
Agreed. The likes of Prosound and Behringer are OK for pubs and small bars etc. but when you're dealing with a 600 person venue you need something with some real welly!

My small system is 1,500W and I wouldn't even attempt to use it for a big room.

I'd either use a four cab 3,500W system or a six cab 5,000W system.
 
Cheers AMAHM & Groovin for your comments.

In my eyes, or should I say ears - it was loud enough. I cannot understand why they would want it any louder.

Can you advise on what size amp to buy, enough to power the subs & top speakers.


Update
Sorry mistyped earlier : The function room would prob hold about 300 not 600 ! - Be lucky to get 600 through the door in a week, let alone a night ! lol
 
As above, Prosound and Behringer are very much budget brands for pubs etc.

If you want to take on large gigs like that it gets big & expensive so hiring for each type of venue may be a sensible option.

Even my Peavey rig with 2 x 15" bass bins & 2 x 12" full range tops with 2 x CS1000x amps would struggle with that.

I remember a gig I did one year with the kit above in a ballroom and it sounded great. The year after they hired a cheaper guy to save £20 and it ended up ruining their night as there was no sound from his 150w portable rig.

Keith
 
The thing you have to remember is that people absorb sound. So if the place is packed you need enough sound to get passed the first 10ft.

More speakers isn't always the answer, positioning can help. Placing your tops above head height will see the sound travel further.

Also, unless you plan to play these size venues often, there's no point ramping up your gear to cover it. You'll never recover the cost and just have bigger, heavier stuff to lug around ;-)

This is one of the reasons I went active. I have 4 x 500w subs and 4 x 450w tops. I can use any combination, place them virtually anywhere and have built in redundancy.

Why not look at hiring if it's a one off and the budget allows. This is why you never quote a price too early or if you don't know the venue...

Do you know other DJ's who might loan you or hire you some additional sound? parts of my rig get hired out for re-enforcement on a regular basis.

Cheers,

Roy
 
I am not a fan of either company, so can not advise in good faith.
 
Problem is, in my neck of the woods, there is a lack of shops you can actually buy equipment from - 1 Disco supplier 25 mile away, guess everyone is buying online now.

All fellow DJs were out working on the Sat, & I needed to get something ASAP.

It was only then at the end of the night that I was offered a residency ( I think going out of my way to get emergency speakers helped ), so will have to up my game for the next couple of weeks.

Can anyone suggest a decent set up - Amp / Speakers / Bassbins etc.

 
2 x Mackie SRM450 MkII would be a good start to get you going, they're about £400 each but very good.

As Roy says above, Active is the way to go nowadays, everything is built in so it's a lot easier.
 
What is your "neck of the woods"? There might be someone here with a big enough system to help.

Yes we can suggest a decent set up - but what's your budget? No good us suggesting you spend £6,000 if you haven't got it!
 
groovindj wrote :
What is your "neck of the woods"? There might be someone here with a big enough system to help.

Based in Cardiff Groovin

Yes we can suggest a decent set up - but what's your budget? No good us suggesting you spend £6,000 if you haven't got it!


Budget would prob be about £1000 ?

 
Cardiff's too far for me!

£1000 might just get you a pair of RCF HD12A powered cabs if you're lucky - but subs to go with it would be £1,600 to £2,000.

You might just get away with it using a £3,000 system like that.

A good system's like a condom. It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
 
groovindj wrote :
A good system's like a condom. It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.


^^ Like button needed :)
 
There's a similar line in the first AvP movie referring to a gun, but apparently its origin is some bloke called Franz Kafka.
 
I think your guests are trying to tell you that the sound is hard and that there is no warmth, no good just getting more powerful speakers!

Keep the ones you've got and get a DECENT subwoofer, with a grand may I suggest you get an RCF 905AS.

And when you can upgrade from those terrible brands.

Love that bit about buying online lol.
 
The problem is, if he gets a decent sub it's going to completely drown out his inadequate speakers!

To do it properly and not waste money, he needs to replace the lot and start over.

He could add a bit more bass by getting himself cheap passive subs, an amp and a crossover for maybe £500 - but it'd be far
better to UPgrade rather than move sideways. Buy better kit, not more cheap kit!

I've just Googled and found a company called Sun Sound that do PA hire in Cardiff...
 
You need twice as much bass to balance your tops out, I often go out with four subs and a pair of 12" tops and its perfect.

One sub wont kill his tops even if they are Chinas finest, they will easily cope in fact i bet you could turn them down a bit.

I honestly don't think its a volume issue, I think it's a sound imbalance issue. Basically it just sounds crap!
 
virtual kev wrote :
groovindj wrote :
What is your "neck of the woods"? There might be someone here with a big enough system to help.

Based in Cardiff Groovin

Yes we can suggest a decent set up - but what's your budget? No good us suggesting you spend £6,000 if you haven't got it!


Budget would prob be about £1000 ?



Kev, i am also in cardiff, i may be able to help. :-)
 
Charlie Wilson wrote :
You need twice as much bass to balance your tops out

I'm referring to the efficiency of decent speakers compared to cheap ones - not the balance of bass to mid/top.

If you're needing to use four subs to one pair of tops, the subs can't be much good!

Charlie Wilson wrote :
One sub wont kill his tops


It could if he buys a decent one. A cheap one (or two) would likely match his tops better, but it's not much of an upgrade.

Where it could help though is taking the strain off the overworked bass driver in the top cabs, just leaving it to handle mids.

But.......if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well.
 
Not for nothing, but the setup he has now, is only good for a very small party. His amp can only deliver 250 watts, period. I don't know what the THD is, but even if it's in the low range, anything over 250, starts to generate heat. The crowd keeps yelling, "turn it up", and he keeps turning it up. I don't know if he has any clip indicators, but his amp is screaming, "I'm getting ready to burn something up". His speakers are starting to sound like dodo, and then smoke. You should only drive a 250 watt amp at 75%, or 150 to 175 watt. This way when there is a peak, it has some headroom. I use a Mackie 450 as a monitor, you just can not rock a decent size crowd, in a decent size room, with a 250 watt amp. So, if you want to rock the house, you are going to have to start over.
 
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