sonisphere
In another thread a new interesting topic was spawned Selection vs Flow knowing that they are both important which has priority int your DJing or are they intertwined so tight its like Reese chocolate and peanut butter?
https://www.virtualdj.com/forums/179889/General_Discussion/First__Paying__Gig.html
sonisphere wrote :
-Many people believe that the song selection is what keeps them on the dance floor NO.. NO... NO...Its the FLOW that keeps them dancing.
I disagree. It's not all about the flow, and forget the selection.
In my opinion it's selection first, flow second. If you can make your selections flow, then great. If not, it doesn't matter - play the song.
There's certainly no need to play five "filler" songs in order to get from one song to another at a different BPM.
sonisphere
The truth is they are both important. In my personal style Flow is priority.
sonisphere
If the selection is the priority the radio plays hits (when a live DJ is not spinning) but you don't see people dancing to the radio. If it was about the selection then people would just turn on the radio at a gig. The only time I feel like dancing when the radio is playing is when they have guest star DJ spinning.
Hmmmm....
https://www.virtualdj.com/forums/179889/General_Discussion/First__Paying__Gig.html
sonisphere wrote :
-Many people believe that the song selection is what keeps them on the dance floor NO.. NO... NO...Its the FLOW that keeps them dancing.
I disagree. It's not all about the flow, and forget the selection.
In my opinion it's selection first, flow second. If you can make your selections flow, then great. If not, it doesn't matter - play the song.
There's certainly no need to play five "filler" songs in order to get from one song to another at a different BPM.
sonisphere
The truth is they are both important. In my personal style Flow is priority.
sonisphere
If the selection is the priority the radio plays hits (when a live DJ is not spinning) but you don't see people dancing to the radio. If it was about the selection then people would just turn on the radio at a gig. The only time I feel like dancing when the radio is playing is when they have guest star DJ spinning.
Hmmmm....
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 12:36 pm
xcakid
Ahh... welll... there in separates the GREAT DJ vs just a DJ. Its a fine line you have to thread between flow and song selection.
In certain cases with the proper song selection, you can have the right flow. I like to mix to a crescendo and drop it and build it up again. This is so I can rotate the dance floor. If everyone is only dancing, they are not buying drinks. If they are not buying drinks, the bar/club I am DJing at is not making money. Which means my butt is getting fired. I have to keep people there buying drinks. I do that by creating an atmosphere where they want to stay (song selection) but give them the opportunity to rest and have a drink or two (flow) This way of mixing works well for me in a club/bar environment.
However, a mobile DJ may be different and my rely more on song selection to please the crowd. Whereas a DJ doing say a festival or concert or being an opener, may tend to go along the side of flow.
In certain cases with the proper song selection, you can have the right flow. I like to mix to a crescendo and drop it and build it up again. This is so I can rotate the dance floor. If everyone is only dancing, they are not buying drinks. If they are not buying drinks, the bar/club I am DJing at is not making money. Which means my butt is getting fired. I have to keep people there buying drinks. I do that by creating an atmosphere where they want to stay (song selection) but give them the opportunity to rest and have a drink or two (flow) This way of mixing works well for me in a club/bar environment.
However, a mobile DJ may be different and my rely more on song selection to please the crowd. Whereas a DJ doing say a festival or concert or being an opener, may tend to go along the side of flow.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 1:04 pm
sonisphere
I love your feedback from the perspective of a club DJ where your customer is the bar owner. I lower the tone/energy to create dynamics. If you play all of you hits back to back the track doesn't stand out and you loose the dynamics.
Thank you for this perspective.
Thank you for this perspective.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 1:19 pm
groovindj
Thanks for editing my name out of the post, sonisphere!
My comment in the quoted text was:
"I disagree. It's not all about the flow, and forget the selection.
In my opinion it's selection first, flow second. If you can make your selections flow, then great. If not, it doesn't matter - play the song.
There's certainly no need to play five "filler" songs in order to get from one song to another at a different BPM."
As for the comment about the radio, well actually people do "dance to the radio" in effect. People tend to dance to songs they know. Songs they've heard, on the radio or TV etc. If you're playing obscure stuff "for the flow" then you're not going to get many dancers.
I'm speaking generally here - an average crowd, regardless of whether it's a bar/club or a wedding/party. Of course there are exceptions, such as a specialist club or event where people are there for the vibe, rather than to hear familiar songs.
My comment in the quoted text was:
"I disagree. It's not all about the flow, and forget the selection.
In my opinion it's selection first, flow second. If you can make your selections flow, then great. If not, it doesn't matter - play the song.
There's certainly no need to play five "filler" songs in order to get from one song to another at a different BPM."
As for the comment about the radio, well actually people do "dance to the radio" in effect. People tend to dance to songs they know. Songs they've heard, on the radio or TV etc. If you're playing obscure stuff "for the flow" then you're not going to get many dancers.
I'm speaking generally here - an average crowd, regardless of whether it's a bar/club or a wedding/party. Of course there are exceptions, such as a specialist club or event where people are there for the vibe, rather than to hear familiar songs.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 2:38 pm
sonisphere
Hi Groovindj,
Sorry for editing out your name.
You obviously know what you are doing as you have been spinning for over thirty years compared to me a mere 4 years. I personally believe that you have been doing this for so long that you are not conscious of the flow you just are flowing. Its in your subconscious now where guys like me need to be aware of this process like driving standard, after awhile you don't even realize you are shifting.
Once again I apologies for lack of forum decorum.
Cheers.
Sorry for editing out your name.
You obviously know what you are doing as you have been spinning for over thirty years compared to me a mere 4 years. I personally believe that you have been doing this for so long that you are not conscious of the flow you just are flowing. Its in your subconscious now where guys like me need to be aware of this process like driving standard, after awhile you don't even realize you are shifting.
Once again I apologies for lack of forum decorum.
Cheers.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 3:14 pm
groovindj
sonisphere wrote :
forum decorum.
Now there's a good phrase!
Yes, you're possibly right about DJing on autopilot once you reach a certain stage. I've had other DJs say to me "oh wow that was a fantastic mix" when to me it was just another mix. I'm shrugging and saying "what'd I do?". :-)
I recently got some great feedback from a groom, about a month after a wedding I did. To me it wasn't a particularly great night, the floor wasn't packed and I didn't do anything outstanding, but his feedback was almost as if I was some sort of superstar DJ.
On another forum yesterday, some DJs were uploading mixes, and I was coaxed into doing one. I slung a few tunes together and didn't really spend much time on it. Uploaded it, and the DJ who'd asked me said it was awesome.
I just wish clients were willing to pay more for my awesomeness! LOL
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 3:57 pm
jboerlage
sonisphere wrote :
In another thread a new interesting topic was spawned Selection vs Flow knowing that they are both important which has priority int your DJing or are they intertwined so tight its like Reese chocolate and peanut butter?
That's a great question indeed and also very personal one I guess since there are more roads to 'success'...
I don't think there is a perfect flow with in combination with a crappy selection. There is no doubt that whatever you do, track selection is always important. Its your chance to excel over others in originality and add your personal stamp to whatever DJing you are doing.
Flow much more dependents on the whole context and style you are playing. A wedding DJ has something that could resemble a flow.. its the generic build up of the evening, A bar DJ might have a flow where he is continuously playing with its crowd with short bits of popular songs, A club house DJ will try to get these epic ever evolving flow and a podcast DJ might try to tell a whole musical story within 45 minutes.
And yes the flow is important, but it depends on the context HOW important it is. Personally in general I always think in a flow when preparing a mix. It makes sure that those great tracks you selected are all able to stand out instead of getting lost in a mix of up and downs.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 7:07 pm
wildcountryclub
selection+flow / customer satisfaction = X
there's your fomula.
read your crowd, make them happy - dancing or not - and that includes venue owner and manager, and you will stay employed.
but its up to you to get in the trenches and learn from experience what works in the venue you are in, whether its a church social or a packed weekend hot spot.
there's your fomula.
read your crowd, make them happy - dancing or not - and that includes venue owner and manager, and you will stay employed.
but its up to you to get in the trenches and learn from experience what works in the venue you are in, whether its a church social or a packed weekend hot spot.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 7:15 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Doe anybody here throw their own shows?? Like you get to play whatever you want without having to answer to people or managers..........
I don't do wedding or karaoke, we mainly just throw shows at bars or clubs, open for acts like Twista, Prof, Etc, etc..... it could be a hip hop show or just DJs. Either I find it more fulfillig and a lot more fun....
I don't do wedding or karaoke, we mainly just throw shows at bars or clubs, open for acts like Twista, Prof, Etc, etc..... it could be a hip hop show or just DJs. Either I find it more fulfillig and a lot more fun....
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 9:11 pm
Caliente123
This is what works for me. I make a lot of sessions of the same genre and I chose and pick certain songs that I think will make a crowd happy. Anyone can play a good track but, keeping the crowd happy based on how you play your sets is the harder part. there are djs that sound ok and others that make a bigger impact on the crowd by bringing a lot of energy into there sets. You may sound good now but, one hour later, you die out and bore the crowd. What I like about NYC is, There are thousands of Djs and many are doing what ever it takes to bring there skillz to the next level. I practice to keep up with the competition and I visit many clubs to hear what other djs are doing. That's how I prepare myself to keep up with the flow.
Mensajes Wed 31 Jul 13 @ 10:41 pm
Dazmax
Flow is an interesting term. You can have flow in an individual mix, flow in the way you manage the event and obviously flow as part and parcel of music selection.
I think it is very difficult to seperate flow and music selection purely because if you are playing the right selection of music and are able to keep in tune with the crowd, flow is natural. It should not be noticed, it should just be there. Kind of like having the crowd on autopilot with you as the controller. They know they are doing it even though they may have no idea or even interest in how it is being done. Your flow is coming from knowing how or what to play based on your experience and ability to read their reactions. You adjust the music selection to exactly mach the crowds expectations. They end up hearing what they want to hear almost before they think of it themselves.
When the crowd is jumping the are doing that because of what you are doing and when they decide to take a break and got to the Bar, chances are that you wanted them to :-) Your flow for the night dictated that it was the right time for them to take a break or to swap/rotate the dance floor.
They are however the first to let you know when it is not right for them and this happens when your flow is brocken or misjudged.
Daz
I think it is very difficult to seperate flow and music selection purely because if you are playing the right selection of music and are able to keep in tune with the crowd, flow is natural. It should not be noticed, it should just be there. Kind of like having the crowd on autopilot with you as the controller. They know they are doing it even though they may have no idea or even interest in how it is being done. Your flow is coming from knowing how or what to play based on your experience and ability to read their reactions. You adjust the music selection to exactly mach the crowds expectations. They end up hearing what they want to hear almost before they think of it themselves.
When the crowd is jumping the are doing that because of what you are doing and when they decide to take a break and got to the Bar, chances are that you wanted them to :-) Your flow for the night dictated that it was the right time for them to take a break or to swap/rotate the dance floor.
They are however the first to let you know when it is not right for them and this happens when your flow is brocken or misjudged.
Daz
Mensajes Thu 01 Aug 13 @ 1:25 am
sonisphere
Feedback in this thread is interesting. As the crowd at weddings and corporate gigs are so diverse you are usually playing a wide spectrum of music. To me flow mean not going from 128 bpm to 99 bpm then back 132bpm with Rock then Reggea or Dance.
Flow is transitioning songs that musically work together regardless of the lyrics and content. It is also transitioning in a musical fashion 8, 16 or 32 bars. One verse ending with the new verse starting. Drastic transitions occurring in a musical fashion utilizing a effect or cut.
Selection is picking songs that lyrically and content wise makes sense and is a known popular song that tells a story. For example although Tailor Swift's We Will Never Get Back Together is a great track I would never play this at a wedding (unless requested for a reason) because it contradicts the theme of the event.
I reminded me of the 90's when sound CREWS would have a "selector" who's sole function was to dig through the crates and pull the records. Then you had the MC who was hyping up the crowd with his rantings over the microphone and then you had the DJ who would simply transition the records handed to him in a musical fashion.
Now that the technology/VDJ has made it more efficient to find and load songs we are now all three of these guys in one.
Flow is transitioning songs that musically work together regardless of the lyrics and content. It is also transitioning in a musical fashion 8, 16 or 32 bars. One verse ending with the new verse starting. Drastic transitions occurring in a musical fashion utilizing a effect or cut.
Selection is picking songs that lyrically and content wise makes sense and is a known popular song that tells a story. For example although Tailor Swift's We Will Never Get Back Together is a great track I would never play this at a wedding (unless requested for a reason) because it contradicts the theme of the event.
I reminded me of the 90's when sound CREWS would have a "selector" who's sole function was to dig through the crates and pull the records. Then you had the MC who was hyping up the crowd with his rantings over the microphone and then you had the DJ who would simply transition the records handed to him in a musical fashion.
Now that the technology/VDJ has made it more efficient to find and load songs we are now all three of these guys in one.
Mensajes Thu 01 Aug 13 @ 8:09 am