Scoox
(In the following examples, SmartPlay is disabled in all cases)
Case 1:
1. Disable beatlock on all decks except Deck 4
2. Ensure neither Deck 1 nor Deck 4 is master
3. Ensure no decks are playing
4. Click the "SELECT" button of Deck 1 (button located top-right of the jogwheel)
5. Move the pitch fader of Deck 4
Question: Why does the pitch fader of Deck 1 move?
Case 2: Same as above but ensure Deck 2 is playing and is Master.
1. Disable beatlock on all decks except Deck 4
2. Ensure neither Deck 1 nor Deck 4 is master
3. Ensure Decks 1, 3 & 4 not playing, and ensure Deck 2 is playing
4. Click the "SELECT" button of Deck 1 (button located top-right of the jogwheel)
5. Move the pitch fader of Deck 4
Question: In this case when I move the pitch fader of Deck 4, now the pitch fader of Deck one no longer moves, instead the pitch fader of Deck 2 moves, why??
There are more cases where I've lost a few hairs over this.
Maybe the problem is I don't really understand is what the 4 beatlock buttons represent. Beatlock implies locking to a beatsource. I'd expect that to be the master deck, but that's not always the case. I really can't get my head around this. I've searched the manual for "beatlock" and here's all I could find:
"Beatlock
Enable Beatlock to keep a deck always synchronised with the other decks even if the pitch is changed or during scratching."
Clearly there's a lot more going on with beatlock and the manual description is not comprehensive enough. If someone could explain how this works I'd appreciate it, thanks!
Case 1:
1. Disable beatlock on all decks except Deck 4
2. Ensure neither Deck 1 nor Deck 4 is master
3. Ensure no decks are playing
4. Click the "SELECT" button of Deck 1 (button located top-right of the jogwheel)
5. Move the pitch fader of Deck 4
Question: Why does the pitch fader of Deck 1 move?
Case 2: Same as above but ensure Deck 2 is playing and is Master.
1. Disable beatlock on all decks except Deck 4
2. Ensure neither Deck 1 nor Deck 4 is master
3. Ensure Decks 1, 3 & 4 not playing, and ensure Deck 2 is playing
4. Click the "SELECT" button of Deck 1 (button located top-right of the jogwheel)
5. Move the pitch fader of Deck 4
Question: In this case when I move the pitch fader of Deck 4, now the pitch fader of Deck one no longer moves, instead the pitch fader of Deck 2 moves, why??
There are more cases where I've lost a few hairs over this.
Maybe the problem is I don't really understand is what the 4 beatlock buttons represent. Beatlock implies locking to a beatsource. I'd expect that to be the master deck, but that's not always the case. I really can't get my head around this. I've searched the manual for "beatlock" and here's all I could find:
"Beatlock
Enable Beatlock to keep a deck always synchronised with the other decks even if the pitch is changed or during scratching."
Clearly there's a lot more going on with beatlock and the manual description is not comprehensive enough. If someone could explain how this works I'd appreciate it, thanks!
Mensajes Mon 03 Dec 18 @ 8:00 am
Adion
Obviously the beats can't be locked if the tempo is different, so that's why the tempo of the deck that is being locked on needs to change too if you change the tempo of the locked deck.
Mensajes Mon 03 Dec 18 @ 8:50 am
Scoox
I keep stumbling upon a problem where I have a Deck 1 playing and Deck 2 stopped, I set Deck 2 to a tempo different from Deck 1. Then, when I press Play on Deck 2, the tempo of Deck 1 jumps to match Deck 2. This would be disastrous during a set. Can't replicate it now but I'm trying to figure out the steps. It's happened several times and every time it's left me wondering what I did wrong.
I can't understand why if I move the pitch fader on the master deck, the pitch fader of other decks that have beatlock enabled doesn't move, and yet if I move pitch fader of other decks the master deck pitch fader follows. Shouldn't the master be the one that is followed, not the other way around?
I can't understand why if I move the pitch fader on the master deck, the pitch fader of other decks that have beatlock enabled doesn't move, and yet if I move pitch fader of other decks the master deck pitch fader follows. Shouldn't the master be the one that is followed, not the other way around?
Mensajes Mon 03 Dec 18 @ 10:21 am
groovindj
You really need to read the manual.
Mensajes Mon 03 Dec 18 @ 6:27 pm
Raniki
'Smart_play' enabled?
Mensajes Mon 03 Dec 18 @ 11:45 pm
Scoox
Smart play deliberately disabled to keep things simple while trying to understand beatlock.
@groovindj I have read the bit of the manual that describes beatlock and, as I said, the explanation there was insuficient. If there is a better description somewhere in the manual, I couldn't find it and would be thankful if someone could point me to it.
PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY: If the master deck has beatlock ON and a non-master deck has beatlock OFF, the master deck tempo jumps to match the tempo of a non-master as soon as the non-master starts playing. When master selection is automatically decided by VDJ, the master deck is usually sending audio to the main output (the one the crowd can hear). It goes without saying that the sudden tempo jump sounds like *ss. So, what does master even mean if the master is syncing up to the slave?? The way I see it, it's the wrong way round.
From the manual:
"Master Deck - The MASTER deck is indicated in orange. If the deck is set to MASTER all decks will sync to it (if SYNC is pressed on the opposing decks). Usually the Master deck is the deck that plays out "live", which in most cases is the playing deck with the higher volume. VirtualDJ uses internal criteria to automatically set the Master Deck each time.
The Master deck can be set manually by clicking on the grey MASTER text in another deck (will become orange). Once a deck is manually selected as MASTER, automatic selection stops and each deck from that point will need to be manually set as the Master deck if it requires changing. Right-clicking on any of the MASTER texts or clicking on the orange text of the current MASTER deck will revert back to the auto-selection setting."
Things that don't make sense:
1. "The master deck is indicated in orange": How? Where? In 4-deck mode the word "MASTER" is shown in orange, the word is, not the deck, which is what this description seems to imply. In 2-deck mode there is no indicator at all, and yet the manual uses the 2-deck skin for reference. It took some head scratching to figure this one out. Again, "clicking on the orange text"... there is no orange text that I can see. If each deck had a caption saying "DECK 1/2/3/4" and that was shown in either white or orange, then it would make sense.
2. "If the deck is set to MASTER all decks will sync to it (if SYNC is pressed on the opposing decks)": As I've just shown, a non-master deck can cause the master tempo to jump, therefore the description in the manual is either incorrect or incomplete.
3. If beatlock is off on all decks and two decks (one master, one non-master) are playing at different tempos, pressing the SYNC button on the master will sync the master to the other non-master deck. This contradicts the manual description.
4. If Deck 1 and 2 are both non-master and playing, and beatlock is DISABLED for all decks, pressing SYNC on Deck 1 will sync Deck 1 to Deck 2, even if Deck 3 is playing and is master. I'm not always able to reproduce this one.
5. Open VDJ, load tracks on Deck 1 and 2, initially Deck 1 is master. Move either pitch fader to ensure Decks 1 and 2 have are not synced, then click SYNC button on Deck 1 (which is still the master). Result: Deck 1, the master, syncs to Deck 2, the non-master. If all decks are loaded, Deck 1 will sync to any one of Decks 2, 3, or 4, and I can't predict which one it will be each time. This only seems to happen when VDJ is first launched, subsequent attempts fail to replicate the problem. Still, it contradicts the manual.
My problem with all this is that when I click a button I cannot predict what will happen.
@groovindj I have read the bit of the manual that describes beatlock and, as I said, the explanation there was insuficient. If there is a better description somewhere in the manual, I couldn't find it and would be thankful if someone could point me to it.
PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY: If the master deck has beatlock ON and a non-master deck has beatlock OFF, the master deck tempo jumps to match the tempo of a non-master as soon as the non-master starts playing. When master selection is automatically decided by VDJ, the master deck is usually sending audio to the main output (the one the crowd can hear). It goes without saying that the sudden tempo jump sounds like *ss. So, what does master even mean if the master is syncing up to the slave?? The way I see it, it's the wrong way round.
From the manual:
"Master Deck - The MASTER deck is indicated in orange. If the deck is set to MASTER all decks will sync to it (if SYNC is pressed on the opposing decks). Usually the Master deck is the deck that plays out "live", which in most cases is the playing deck with the higher volume. VirtualDJ uses internal criteria to automatically set the Master Deck each time.
The Master deck can be set manually by clicking on the grey MASTER text in another deck (will become orange). Once a deck is manually selected as MASTER, automatic selection stops and each deck from that point will need to be manually set as the Master deck if it requires changing. Right-clicking on any of the MASTER texts or clicking on the orange text of the current MASTER deck will revert back to the auto-selection setting."
Things that don't make sense:
1. "The master deck is indicated in orange": How? Where? In 4-deck mode the word "MASTER" is shown in orange, the word is, not the deck, which is what this description seems to imply. In 2-deck mode there is no indicator at all, and yet the manual uses the 2-deck skin for reference. It took some head scratching to figure this one out. Again, "clicking on the orange text"... there is no orange text that I can see. If each deck had a caption saying "DECK 1/2/3/4" and that was shown in either white or orange, then it would make sense.
2. "If the deck is set to MASTER all decks will sync to it (if SYNC is pressed on the opposing decks)": As I've just shown, a non-master deck can cause the master tempo to jump, therefore the description in the manual is either incorrect or incomplete.
3. If beatlock is off on all decks and two decks (one master, one non-master) are playing at different tempos, pressing the SYNC button on the master will sync the master to the other non-master deck. This contradicts the manual description.
4. If Deck 1 and 2 are both non-master and playing, and beatlock is DISABLED for all decks, pressing SYNC on Deck 1 will sync Deck 1 to Deck 2, even if Deck 3 is playing and is master. I'm not always able to reproduce this one.
5. Open VDJ, load tracks on Deck 1 and 2, initially Deck 1 is master. Move either pitch fader to ensure Decks 1 and 2 have are not synced, then click SYNC button on Deck 1 (which is still the master). Result: Deck 1, the master, syncs to Deck 2, the non-master. If all decks are loaded, Deck 1 will sync to any one of Decks 2, 3, or 4, and I can't predict which one it will be each time. This only seems to happen when VDJ is first launched, subsequent attempts fail to replicate the problem. Still, it contradicts the manual.
My problem with all this is that when I click a button I cannot predict what will happen.
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 4:05 am
Mobile Zombie
I guess you missed this important info: (How VDJ choose the master)
" which in most cases is the playing deck with the higher volume. VirtualDJ uses internal criteria to automatically set the Master Deck each time."
" which in most cases is the playing deck with the higher volume. VirtualDJ uses internal criteria to automatically set the Master Deck each time."
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 7:48 am
PhantomDeejay
You come from a different background and you find some things confusing.
I get that.
But please first try to "clear" your mind from the different background you come from and then some things will make sense:
1) When a deck is set as Master and you press "SYNC" on that deck, what would you expect to happen ? Nothing ?
The answer is obviously no. There must must be a reason you pressed sync on a deck that's set as master. What't this reason ? Obviously to sync the deck with the "other" deck(s), no ?
That's why sync changes TEMPO on a deck that's set as master.
Before I go on, I will try to make it easier for you you:
There's no button/function in VirtualDJ that will make a deck to run as "master" with all other decks "slave" to that deck. The wording may be confusing, but in VirtualDJ the "master" deck is a reference to the deck that has the higher priority on sync functions when multiple decks are playing.
So, before you keep searching, keep in mind that you can't set a deck as "master" in a mode where all other decks will follow that deck and that deck will change only manually. You can't do that with ANY combination of settings and actions.
The basic purpose of all automation functions is to ease mixing. VirtualDJ tries to makes mixing more easy and user friendly. In several cases we don't use "computer logic" for that exact reason. In the world you're coming from, a "master" deck is treated with "computer logic". Leave the deck alone and everything else should follow.
But as I said, if the user for some reason presses the SYNC button on master deck, what should the software do ? With "computer logic" it should do nothing. It can't sync to itself. However on a true case scenario (where you're in the middle of a mix and your tracks start drifting (for whatever reason) it would be counter productive to have the user remember to change master deck before hitting sync, or expect him to hit sync on the correct (non master) deck.
Same rule applies for other functions.
Locks in VirtualDJ are not "one way" only. They are "both ways"
When you lock beats in 2 decks both decks control each other in order to keep the beats locked. It's not a case where the "slave" deck will follow the "master"
Same rule applies for pitch lock.
Yes, the manual may not be 100% clear on all cases, and when we detect such a case we revise it.
But you should not try to interpret the manual with computer logic.
If you try to think outside the box (or better yet, outside your current background) some things will start to make sense right away.
"Master" is the deck that the other decks will sync to it when more than two decks are playing. Simple, no ?
Master deck is determined automatically based on volume levels, deck status e.t.c. Most of the time this works perfectly, but if you want to change it manually, you can. Seems simple to me... Leave master deck to auto unless there's a special case that you need to set it manually, then switch it back to auto again
Beatlock lock the "beats" of the tracks and tries to keep them together and synced. Once the tracks are locked, does it really matter which one you'll alter the pitch ? Shouldn't both change pitch to stay locked ?
Don't get me wrong. I'm trying to help you. I don't know your workflow, nor what you're trying to achieve, but it seems that you struggle upon some functions not because they are working "wrong" but because they differ from your current background.
I get that.
But please first try to "clear" your mind from the different background you come from and then some things will make sense:
1) When a deck is set as Master and you press "SYNC" on that deck, what would you expect to happen ? Nothing ?
The answer is obviously no. There must must be a reason you pressed sync on a deck that's set as master. What't this reason ? Obviously to sync the deck with the "other" deck(s), no ?
That's why sync changes TEMPO on a deck that's set as master.
Before I go on, I will try to make it easier for you you:
There's no button/function in VirtualDJ that will make a deck to run as "master" with all other decks "slave" to that deck. The wording may be confusing, but in VirtualDJ the "master" deck is a reference to the deck that has the higher priority on sync functions when multiple decks are playing.
So, before you keep searching, keep in mind that you can't set a deck as "master" in a mode where all other decks will follow that deck and that deck will change only manually. You can't do that with ANY combination of settings and actions.
The basic purpose of all automation functions is to ease mixing. VirtualDJ tries to makes mixing more easy and user friendly. In several cases we don't use "computer logic" for that exact reason. In the world you're coming from, a "master" deck is treated with "computer logic". Leave the deck alone and everything else should follow.
But as I said, if the user for some reason presses the SYNC button on master deck, what should the software do ? With "computer logic" it should do nothing. It can't sync to itself. However on a true case scenario (where you're in the middle of a mix and your tracks start drifting (for whatever reason) it would be counter productive to have the user remember to change master deck before hitting sync, or expect him to hit sync on the correct (non master) deck.
Same rule applies for other functions.
Locks in VirtualDJ are not "one way" only. They are "both ways"
When you lock beats in 2 decks both decks control each other in order to keep the beats locked. It's not a case where the "slave" deck will follow the "master"
Same rule applies for pitch lock.
Yes, the manual may not be 100% clear on all cases, and when we detect such a case we revise it.
But you should not try to interpret the manual with computer logic.
If you try to think outside the box (or better yet, outside your current background) some things will start to make sense right away.
"Master" is the deck that the other decks will sync to it when more than two decks are playing. Simple, no ?
Master deck is determined automatically based on volume levels, deck status e.t.c. Most of the time this works perfectly, but if you want to change it manually, you can. Seems simple to me... Leave master deck to auto unless there's a special case that you need to set it manually, then switch it back to auto again
Beatlock lock the "beats" of the tracks and tries to keep them together and synced. Once the tracks are locked, does it really matter which one you'll alter the pitch ? Shouldn't both change pitch to stay locked ?
Don't get me wrong. I'm trying to help you. I don't know your workflow, nor what you're trying to achieve, but it seems that you struggle upon some functions not because they are working "wrong" but because they differ from your current background.
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 8:54 am
Scoox
I don't think I can understand this so I'll just explain how I would expect it to work:
GOLDEN RULES:
1. Only playing decks can be master
2. Only one deck can be master at a time
3. If you click SYNC on a deck (stopped or playing), that deck will sync to whichever the master deck.
4. If you click SYNC on the master deck, nothing happens
5. If all decks are stopped, there is no master, therefore clicking SYNC does nothing
6. If more than one deck is an eligible master, use some criteria to automatically choose a master among the playing decks (more on this below)
7. Users can, at any time, manually choose a different master among the playing decks by clicking a playing deck's MASTER indicator
8. Auto-master selection is always active. As soon as a manually selected master deck stops, the next master is chosen automatically among the remaining playing decks.
9. Make the MASTER indicator NICE AND BIG AND FAT AND BRIGHT so it's easy to see!!
Now, let's consider the following scenario:
Deck 1: playing, beatsync off
Deck 2: playing beatsync off
Deck 3: playing beatsync off
Deck 4: playing, beatsync off, master
● If I click SYNC on Deck 1, it will sync to the master which is Deck 4
● If I click SYNC on Deck 4, the master, nothing happens
● If I stop Deck 4, then any one of Decks 1, 2 or 3 is an eligible master. This is an uncertain case, so use arbitrarily chosen criteria to chose one. Possible criteria include:
● Deck elapsed time
● Deck level fader or volume (if you choose this don't forget to use hysteresis to prevent chatter)
● Deck number
● CPU temperature
● rand()
What really matters is that the master indicator should be easy to see!
GOLDEN RULES:
1. Only playing decks can be master
2. Only one deck can be master at a time
3. If you click SYNC on a deck (stopped or playing), that deck will sync to whichever the master deck.
4. If you click SYNC on the master deck, nothing happens
5. If all decks are stopped, there is no master, therefore clicking SYNC does nothing
6. If more than one deck is an eligible master, use some criteria to automatically choose a master among the playing decks (more on this below)
7. Users can, at any time, manually choose a different master among the playing decks by clicking a playing deck's MASTER indicator
8. Auto-master selection is always active. As soon as a manually selected master deck stops, the next master is chosen automatically among the remaining playing decks.
9. Make the MASTER indicator NICE AND BIG AND FAT AND BRIGHT so it's easy to see!!
Now, let's consider the following scenario:
Deck 1: playing, beatsync off
Deck 2: playing beatsync off
Deck 3: playing beatsync off
Deck 4: playing, beatsync off, master
● If I click SYNC on Deck 1, it will sync to the master which is Deck 4
● If I click SYNC on Deck 4, the master, nothing happens
● If I stop Deck 4, then any one of Decks 1, 2 or 3 is an eligible master. This is an uncertain case, so use arbitrarily chosen criteria to chose one. Possible criteria include:
● Deck elapsed time
● Deck level fader or volume (if you choose this don't forget to use hysteresis to prevent chatter)
● Deck number
● CPU temperature
● rand()
What really matters is that the master indicator should be easy to see!
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 12:13 pm
klausmogensen
Scoox wrote :
GOLDEN RULES:
It think this is prettty much exactly what he's telling you to never ever write :)
Because it of course personal believes - not rules at all
And again:
If you want to use VDJ, you should focus on learning the way VDJ does things - not try to change it
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 12:47 pm
PhantomDeejay
Scoox wrote :
I
1. Only playing decks can be master
2. Only one deck can be master at a time
3. If you click SYNC on a deck (stopped or playing), that deck will sync to whichever the master deck.
4. If you click SYNC on the master deck, nothing happens
5. If all decks are stopped, there is no master, therefore clicking SYNC does nothing
6. If more than one deck is an eligible master, use some criteria to automatically choose a master among the playing decks (more on this below)
7. Users can, at any time, manually choose a different master among the playing decks by clicking a playing deck's MASTER indicator
8. Auto-master selection is always active. As soon as a manually selected master deck stops, the next master is chosen automatically among the remaining playing decks.
9. Make the MASTER indicator NICE AND BIG AND FAT AND BRIGHT so it's easy to see!!
1. Only playing decks can be master
2. Only one deck can be master at a time
3. If you click SYNC on a deck (stopped or playing), that deck will sync to whichever the master deck.
4. If you click SYNC on the master deck, nothing happens
5. If all decks are stopped, there is no master, therefore clicking SYNC does nothing
6. If more than one deck is an eligible master, use some criteria to automatically choose a master among the playing decks (more on this below)
7. Users can, at any time, manually choose a different master among the playing decks by clicking a playing deck's MASTER indicator
8. Auto-master selection is always active. As soon as a manually selected master deck stops, the next master is chosen automatically among the remaining playing decks.
9. Make the MASTER indicator NICE AND BIG AND FAT AND BRIGHT so it's easy to see!!
1. Why ? Perhaps I want all decks to sync to a stopped deck (which means that sync button will only alter the tempo but not the phase to match the stopped deck)
2. Yes, only one deck can be master.
3. That's true
4. Why ? You pressed the button. It wouldn't make sense to do nothing. On a scenario where only 2 decks are active (playing) and you press sync on a deck does it really matter if it's master or not ? For me it doesn't. I press the sync button on THAT deck because I want THAT deck to move and match the other. (See ? I use different logic than you as I don't really mind which deck is the master here)
5. Why ? I load first deck 128 BPM. I load second deck 126 BPM. No deck is playing yet, but I prepare myself. Why pressing sync on deck 2 shouldn't alter the tempo to match the other deck ?
6. That's how VirtualDJ behaves unless you select a master deck manually.
7. That's how it works. The only "exception" here is when using a 2 decks skin where's no real point of having a 'master' deck (one deck syncs to the other)
8. I don't understand how this wouldn't be confusing. When you set a master deck manually, it's your responsibility to change it to another deck. That's why you set it manually in the first place (so that you are the one who controls it and not an automation algorithm) Also, how would you tell if a deck is master by auto selection or by manual selection ? Wouldn't you need a second indicator then ? And all and all how would this work in conjunction with the rest functions you described ?
If you can't set a stopped deck as master, then you would have to switch to manual master deck a deck that's playing. And if it stops being master automatically after you stop it it means that you wouldn't practically be able to preview (CUP) the deck without loosing it's master attribute. So, you would need to set this deck as master right before mixing it and bringing it live on air ? But then it would become master deck anyway automatically...
(See why it gets confusing???)
9. For me there are other elements that need more space and attention than "Master" deck. It's a matter of personal taste. That's why VirtualDJ is skinnable. You can adjust it's appearance to include any element you want and leave out anything you don't need.
The indicator is present on default 4 and 6 decks skins. It's not present on 2 decks as there's no real point to have a master among 2 decks mixing.
I'm not debating with you.
I just show you that there's not only one logic (the one you come from) but several different approaches for doing the same job (mixing tracks together)
VirtualDJ uses different logic / approach.
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 3:09 pm
Scoox
It's a bit late here, I'll read your reply more carefully tomorrow. I never thought about the two-deck case that way, but indeed that logic makes a lot of sense.
Mensajes Tue 04 Dec 18 @ 4:26 pm