DJ EL
What is the best way(s) to figure out how much power/how many speakers to bring to a gig? Does it go by the number of people expected to attend or the size of the room, which I'm sure can be used with the expected number of people to make a decision. Also, what if the venue is outdoors? How do you make adjustments in this case? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Mensajes Thu 10 Aug 06 @ 10:23 am
l_rids
When I set up for my gigs I only set up according to the size of the dancefloor. If your outdoors same principle should apply. Setup according to how big the dancefloor is. If you can't hear the sound from every corner of the dancefloor you need either larger speakers which give more power or you need more speakers. Typically if I am catering for more than 250 people I normally use 2 sets of speakers.
If you need to project sound outside those areas then you need more speakers. Always keep your speakers in pairs and keep your amp rated to the rms output of your speakers. Nothing more nothing less.
If your ever in doubt, its always better to carry more power than what you will need. You can always turn the volume down but you can't always turn the volume up. :)
If you need to project sound outside those areas then you need more speakers. Always keep your speakers in pairs and keep your amp rated to the rms output of your speakers. Nothing more nothing less.
If your ever in doubt, its always better to carry more power than what you will need. You can always turn the volume down but you can't always turn the volume up. :)
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 3:59 am
A Man and His Music
I rids has some good suggestions, and one that needs a little correction. You want to fill the dance floor, not the room. It also depends on the crowd. If you have 200 guest for an 80th birthday party, and the average age is 60, you will need a lot less than for 200 20 year old kids. I raise my speakers so that the bottom of the cabinet, just touches the top of my head, I am 5'8". You want the mids and highs, above their ears. As for the power, this is where I differ from I rids. Buy the biggest amp you can afford. This way, you will always have something in the bank. If your speakers are rated at 400 watts continuous, your amp should be a min of 600-700 watts/channel, here's why. Distortion kills speakers, not power. Your 400 watts continuous speakers, will take peaks of 600 to 1200 (depends of mfg). If you have a 400 watt amp, it will give you more than 400 watts, but it will not be clean, it will be distorted. When it reaches it's rated power, it has no choice but to start distorting. This will fry your speakers. With your 600 watt amp, when you hit a peak above 400 watts, the amp has the head room to give you that peak of clean, undistorted signal. Now, your 400 watt speakers will take that peak with no problems, because it is rated for that. Clean signals produce heat, distorted signals produce fire. This is not something I made up, but is accepted knowledge in sound reinforcement. Also, if you have a bigger party, you can add more speakers to that amp, and keep on pumping. Always have more than you need.
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 4:45 am
DJ EL
Thanks for both replies, gentlemen. I'll probably start with powered speakers, so the amp/speaker matching issue is moot. I'll definitely have the speakers on stands, too. The thing is figuring out beforehand whether what I have WILL "fill the dancefloor. Especially for a beginner like me. How will I know if what I have will suffice? I don't think it should be just a matter of the number of speakers. If I had the luxury of setting up somewhere well in advance of the gig, I would. I guess I should just play it safe and over-prepare. BTW, I agree with you, A Man, regarding the matching of amps with the speakers. I've read it elsewhere many times over. Most say double the speaker's rated power acceptance, whether comparing watts in rms or peak-to-peak. Good job
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 7:39 am
A Man and His Music
What does your budget look like? I always say, "never buy what you can afford, buy what you want". Don't just get something to get by. If you are in a time crunch, rent or borrow. Save up for what you want. Buy from reputable dealers. Come here, or ask your friends for help. We are here to help. Why should you have to invent the wheel, all over again.
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 7:48 am
DJ EL
Well, i'm looking to start with some Peavy pr15p, then add a powered subwoofer to the mix. I would LOVE some JBL Eon G2's, but i don't see THAT happening. I still need to come up with a backup to the laptop/VDJ thing, in case of a crash. This will be a on-the-side deal, so i don't want to invest too heavily until I know that that's the direction I wish to persue. After that, it'll depends on what gigs I can line up. I'd like to do some small gigs, at first. mebbe a house party or small party room. If I need to add for a "large dancefloor", then I'll either rent or buy, depending on the finances at the moment. I still will like to know HOW I will know if whatever I do get will be enough. I realize that with experience, comes knowledge of such things. I just need the 'magic formula" at the start. Can it be measured in wattage, SPL, etc.
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 8:27 am
A Man and His Music
Two of those Peavy's will run you about $900.00 with the tax. They are rated at 270w. That's not a lot of power, but you will be able to do small gigs. A sub will help, but you still will be pushing the limit with 100 people. There's nothing worst than to hear somebody yell "turn it up", and you are already in the red.
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 9:34 am
DJ EL
Aw, man. you're making me think about the JBL Eon G2's now. lol What do you think would be a good bang-for-the-buck speakers in the $900 range?
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 1:37 pm
asymptote
I would agree with the philosophy to spend what you need to, rather than what you can afford.
I bought some Mackie SRM450s a few months ago following some good advice on this great forum and I am absolutely delighted with them. If you can sttretch a bit, give them a listen. I'm planning on getting a couple more and a sub over the next few weeks.
Buying good quality gear can save a lot of money in the long run. I bought my previous setup in 1988. two big Peavey 3 Way Cabs and a rock solid Yamaha amp. They sounded great and I only replaced earlier this year. They'd been reconed once and the amp repaired once, but if I work out the cost per year (or per gig) it's peanuts. Just worked it out. - they cost me about 30p a gig. (around 50Cents?)
Wow that's a bargain.
I bought some Mackie SRM450s a few months ago following some good advice on this great forum and I am absolutely delighted with them. If you can sttretch a bit, give them a listen. I'm planning on getting a couple more and a sub over the next few weeks.
Buying good quality gear can save a lot of money in the long run. I bought my previous setup in 1988. two big Peavey 3 Way Cabs and a rock solid Yamaha amp. They sounded great and I only replaced earlier this year. They'd been reconed once and the amp repaired once, but if I work out the cost per year (or per gig) it's peanuts. Just worked it out. - they cost me about 30p a gig. (around 50Cents?)
Wow that's a bargain.
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 3:51 pm
DJ EL
The temptation just became stronger. I spotted the Eons 15g2 for $639...a full $60 less than I've seen ANYWHERE, so far. IF I do get them, I was thinking about evetually getting their sub. However, I was surprised at the sub's specs. They put out 250w, which I guess just seems odd considering the 2-way G2's put out 300w. I figured the sub would put out way more than that. Oh, well. Still thinking about it. Asymptote, what sub(s) are you thinking of getting?
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 9:51 pm
asymptote
Not sure which subs. I remember there was a thread on here a while ago, so a search might help.
When I get some more info I'll do an update.
Found this for a start
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/52390/General_Discussion/SWA1501_Makie_Active_Subwoofer.html?highlight=Subs
Cheers
A
When I get some more info I'll do an update.
Found this for a start
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/52390/General_Discussion/SWA1501_Makie_Active_Subwoofer.html?highlight=Subs
Cheers
A
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 10:30 pm
Superstom
I agree with asymtote and a man and his music: Good gear is expensive but cheaper on the longer run. Especially if yuo keep in mind that you might sell it after some time. Good gear keeps value, other brands lose almost all value when you drag them out of the store.
I have a very versatile setup. It could run in the following configurations:
- 2 top speakers, for very small gigs, background music, receptions
- 2 top speakers, 1 subwoofer, is possible, but i never use it
- 2 top speakers and 2 subwoofers, used for normal gigs like weddings, normal venues
- 2 top speakers and 4 subwoofers, used for bigger giga and house, dance, dance classics, R&B parties
- 2 large top speakers and 4 subwoofers, used for big gigs (1200 people) and outdoor
so I could use the configuration that matches the venue, crowd and music style. I didn't buy this setup at once, but extended it over time. I plan to buy 2 additional sub woofers and 2 additional (small) tops.
I also agree that amplifiers are very important. Some cheaper onces have sometimes heat problems. When it got to hot, it just switches off for some time. This is what you not want during a gig. So get always get amplifiers that will limit the output, when overheated. So you still have sound, but on a lower level. If you use powered speakers, you don't have this choice.
I use an amplifier rack with 3 Crown amps. A Macrotech 3600VZ, a Macrotech 2400 and a Macrotech 1200.
Look in my blog for some pictures. Here the following setups are shown:
- 2 top speakers and 2 subwoofers, used for normal gigs like weddings, normal venues
- 2 large top speakers and 4 subwoofers, used for big gigs (1200 people) and outdoor
If you have any questions, please ask
Ewout
I have a very versatile setup. It could run in the following configurations:
- 2 top speakers, for very small gigs, background music, receptions
- 2 top speakers, 1 subwoofer, is possible, but i never use it
- 2 top speakers and 2 subwoofers, used for normal gigs like weddings, normal venues
- 2 top speakers and 4 subwoofers, used for bigger giga and house, dance, dance classics, R&B parties
- 2 large top speakers and 4 subwoofers, used for big gigs (1200 people) and outdoor
so I could use the configuration that matches the venue, crowd and music style. I didn't buy this setup at once, but extended it over time. I plan to buy 2 additional sub woofers and 2 additional (small) tops.
I also agree that amplifiers are very important. Some cheaper onces have sometimes heat problems. When it got to hot, it just switches off for some time. This is what you not want during a gig. So get always get amplifiers that will limit the output, when overheated. So you still have sound, but on a lower level. If you use powered speakers, you don't have this choice.
I use an amplifier rack with 3 Crown amps. A Macrotech 3600VZ, a Macrotech 2400 and a Macrotech 1200.
Look in my blog for some pictures. Here the following setups are shown:
- 2 top speakers and 2 subwoofers, used for normal gigs like weddings, normal venues
- 2 large top speakers and 4 subwoofers, used for big gigs (1200 people) and outdoor
If you have any questions, please ask
Ewout
Mensajes Fri 11 Aug 06 @ 11:58 pm
DJ EL
Excellent input from everyone. I want to go with powered speakers to minimize the amount of equipment that I'll need to lug around. I don't want to lug a rolling rack. I do have 6U of space that is currently not being used. I only have a Honda CR-V. If things get crazy, I'll have to install a hitch and then rent one of those small uhaul thingies. I'll probab;y end up getting the JBL Eon15G2s and hope that the amp never acts up. Are Carvins speakers good? I was looking at some PM15A, which have similar specs as the Eon15 G2. Great information, guys. Keep them coming.
Mensajes Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 1:58 am
DJ EL
Damn. I am all over the place. Now, I am looking at a speaker/amp combination. I still haven't ruled out the Eon15 G2's. I'm considering a pair of JBL Eon 1500 (225w RMS) and a crown amp (either the CE2000-400w@8ohms, XS-500 400@8ohms, XS-700 450w @8ohms or an XLS-602D 380@8ohms). This combo might even cost less than the Eon15 G2's. Would 380W be too low for the Eon 1500 which handles 225w rms?
UPDATE
One website is selling a Crown XS-900, 600w @ 8ohms, for less than the XS-700. Tempting.
UPDATE
One website is selling a Crown XS-900, 600w @ 8ohms, for less than the XS-700. Tempting.
Mensajes Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 3:02 am
A Man and His Music
Slow down and take a deep breath. You should not buy anything at the moment, because you are in a state of mine, that does not allow you to think straight. You are getting a lot of info at a fast pace, and are all over the place. First you must decide which way you are going to go. Do you want to go powered, or passive? You need to make a decision on that first. For 36 years I did the amp, speaker thing. Two years ago at the AC convention, I had money to buy lights. The dealer had a accident, and did not show for the first time in 10 years. I'm pissed, but I got this money burning a hole in my pocket. I come across a sale on Mackie 450's, that I had not noticed, because I was not looking for speakers. They only had 3 left at $400.00 a piece, and no subs. I snap them up, and have not looked back since. This worked for me, and I have added 2 more plus subs (I use one 450 as a monitor, boy does it kick). Once you make that decision, then you can start to look at mfg, and model numbers. I can't say anything about Carvin, because I don't have any, and neither does anybody that I know. That should tell you something. We tend to buy what works for others. BTW, the JBL G2's provide 400 watts. My advice; save your money and get the JBL G2, Mackie 450, Yamaha MSR 400, and the very inexpensive American Audio PXI-15p ($399.00). There are others, but they cost more. I would stay away from the 3 piece systems, because the amps are in the sub cabinet. If something goes wrong with that, you have nothing. Now, for those of you that have one of these 3 piece systems, I am not bashing them, it is just my observation. If they work for you, that is fine.
Mensajes Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 9:03 am
DJ EL
Oh, I'm calm. I do realize that I have to decide between powered or passive. It's obvious that powered is more convenient. It will also free up the little rack space that I have for a sound enhancer or tow. I'm going to see what they have at this month's expo. It'll be my first expo. Are the prices usually less expensive than on the websites? If so, I'm going really prepared. Anyway, I know that the G2's pump out 400. I was referring to the sub G2. It only puts out 250w. I guess I expected them to be more powerful than the full range G2's. I'll definitely consider the Mackie srm450. I wish I had a dj equipment dealer nearby so I could listen to both the JBL and the Mackie. I thought about the American Audio, but I haven't seen many ppl talking them up. I figured that one would get what they paid for with those.
Mensajes Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 9:28 am
A Man and His Music
The deals are not like they use to be, but you can usually do well there. I will be there with a pocket full of money. I only buy equipment between Aug and Dec. Glad you picked up on the American Audio value thing.
Mensajes Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 10:17 am
DJ EL
Yeah. That was too obvious. Gotta figure something is up if they cost over $200 less than the jbls, mackies, yamahas. The best deal I've seen, thus far, for the Eon15 G2 is $639.99. If they can beat that at the Expo, then I'll probably pick it up then. The Yamaha MSR400 seem to be a good deal @ around $550.
Mensajes Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 10:29 am
Superstom
Just a tip:
Before I purchase speakers or amps, I hire a set at first, for a gig. So I could test it out for a night myself. Make sure you walk through the room and audience and just listen a couple of times.
My own experience is worth far more that just a seller at the store. Are they selling those, because it is good, or that the profit is better?
Ewout
Before I purchase speakers or amps, I hire a set at first, for a gig. So I could test it out for a night myself. Make sure you walk through the room and audience and just listen a couple of times.
My own experience is worth far more that just a seller at the store. Are they selling those, because it is good, or that the profit is better?
Ewout
Mensajes Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 2:11 pm
DJ EL
Good tip. I just might do that. Thanks.
Mensajes Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 11:58 pm