wessmith
i think if the dev team releases 4.2 of vdj late on xmas eve, it would be great to wake up on xmas morrning and have a new version waiting for all of us!!!!!, anyone agrea!
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 3:09 am
micha3l
I hope the next release would concentrate more on TCV quality and performance.
I also think that it's better if VDJ releases different types of programs and split up everything.
Let's say, VDJ Scratch for people who would go into TCV Scratching and all that.
VDJ Video for all those VJs out there.
and just regular VDJ Pro.
With all this, development would be easier. Updates & Patches would be quicker too..
I also think that it's better if VDJ releases different types of programs and split up everything.
Let's say, VDJ Scratch for people who would go into TCV Scratching and all that.
VDJ Video for all those VJs out there.
and just regular VDJ Pro.
With all this, development would be easier. Updates & Patches would be quicker too..
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 3:12 am
DJ Marcel_1
I've mentioned a product split before as well
the idea seemed to not go over so well
the idea seemed to not go over so well
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 4:04 am
wessmith
yeh, do u guys think next version is gonna be more focused on tcv in stead vdjs, dont get me wrong i like the feature but i just dont use it.
so do u guys think next realease is gonna focused on tcv???
and
so do u guys think next realease is gonna focused on tcv???
and
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 4:05 am
anewsome
I distincly remember this same thread last year,.. hoping for the next version before christmas. I don't think it ever happened.
Just from what I know about software development,.. there are a number of quick hit bugs that can be squashed pretty easily. Most of the tcv annoyances however are not quick hitters. When you look at the list that xeo and I put together,.. I really can't say ANY of those tcv annoyances are easily fixable. For that reason alone, I'm really not expecting all annoyances to be fixed in the next release and I don't expect the next release to be out in like 2 weeks. I don't have any inside information, that's just a gut feeling from experience.
I mean, just the single annoyance of not reading timecode forward and backward... fixing that alone is a major ordeal. Be realistic in your expectations and you might be pleasantly surprised...
Just from what I know about software development,.. there are a number of quick hit bugs that can be squashed pretty easily. Most of the tcv annoyances however are not quick hitters. When you look at the list that xeo and I put together,.. I really can't say ANY of those tcv annoyances are easily fixable. For that reason alone, I'm really not expecting all annoyances to be fixed in the next release and I don't expect the next release to be out in like 2 weeks. I don't have any inside information, that's just a gut feeling from experience.
I mean, just the single annoyance of not reading timecode forward and backward... fixing that alone is a major ordeal. Be realistic in your expectations and you might be pleasantly surprised...
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 7:55 am
Niems
As the to-do list stated, a lot of the problems are with the physical vinyl themselves, and it takes a lot to get a whole production line to change within 2 weeks...
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 1:06 pm
wessmith
what do u mean by reading the time code backwards?????
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 3:00 pm
Niems
He means that VDJ has a problem whereby if you reverse the platter to reverse the song, and then let it go to start playing forward again, it sometimes continues to play from the wrong place. This is because the software battles to decode the timecode in reverse
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 6:05 pm
sbangs
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 6:37 pm
anewsome
wessmith wrote :
what do u mean by reading the time code backwards?????
it means that virtual dj reads positional information on where the needle is on the record, only when the record is moving forward. when the record is moving backward, vdj is reading the timecode only to see what direction the record is moving but it is ignoring where the needle is on the record. if you move the record back to quickly and vdj does not decode some of the signal, when you release the record to go forward vdj jumps to where it thinks the track should be (since the track is not where it should be, it missed some of the movement from backspinning too fast).
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 9:57 pm
anewsome
Niems wrote :
He means that VDJ has a problem whereby if you reverse the platter to reverse the song, and then let it go to start playing forward again, it sometimes continues to play from the wrong place. This is because the software battles to decode the timecode in reverse
it's not a problem and there is no battle. the software was designed to work this way (not read timecode backwards). the software is working the way it was designed. it's not a very good design, but it's not a bug either since it's working the way it was designed.
here is a test so you can see what i am talking about. while in absolute mode, needle drop the track til it's somewhere in the middle. shut the motor off on your turntable. spin the platter backwards with your hand. now use the needle to drop around on parts of the record while the record is spinning backward. does the track jump to the corresponding part of the song where the needle is dropping, as you would expect it to (I mean, this IS absolute mode right)?
no it doesn't. the track does not move in sync with the needle drop at all. why? because until that record moves forward, vdj is not reading any position information.
my above demonstration can be done on software that reads timecode in both directions (serato) and it will behave as you would expect it to, as it was designed and as it should behave.
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 10:03 pm
wessmith
u can still spin backwards just not needle drop while its spinning backwards right?
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 10:44 pm
anewsome
wessmith wrote :
u can still spin backwards just not needle drop while its spinning backwards right?
i still don't think you're getting it. positional information is only read when the record is moving foward. i don't know how to explain it any more plainly than that. the fact that position is not read when the record is moving backwards, causes all kinds of other problems, like the track jumping to a random place after a fast backspin.
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 11:17 pm
sbangs
this is binary
timecode singal is coded binary
its basic computer code
it can be read in one direction , by the needle
if its read the otherway it means somthing totaly different
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 11:21 pm
cstoll
skyfxl... you don't get it either. If read the 'other way' it should be the EXACT opposite not something different.
What anewsome is describing is that forward or backwards the communication between the timecode signal and the software is consistent in knowing exactly where it should be.
So do you know how to go from your house to the club? Let's say from your house to the club is 20 blocks. And, let's say half way (10 blocks) there you decide to stop and drive backwards for a few blocks (2.2 blocks) - well serato knows that you went back exactly 2.2 block so when you start going forward it knows to pick up at 7.8 blocks and start going forward again. With VDJ depending on how fast you travel backwards VDJ may decide you are at 8 blocks once you start to go forward again and not at 7.8 - hence the skip forward after a fast back spin.
That's the difference of being able to read exact positioning, which also requires a very granular TC stamp with rigorous algorithm.
What anewsome is describing is that forward or backwards the communication between the timecode signal and the software is consistent in knowing exactly where it should be.
So do you know how to go from your house to the club? Let's say from your house to the club is 20 blocks. And, let's say half way (10 blocks) there you decide to stop and drive backwards for a few blocks (2.2 blocks) - well serato knows that you went back exactly 2.2 block so when you start going forward it knows to pick up at 7.8 blocks and start going forward again. With VDJ depending on how fast you travel backwards VDJ may decide you are at 8 blocks once you start to go forward again and not at 7.8 - hence the skip forward after a fast back spin.
That's the difference of being able to read exact positioning, which also requires a very granular TC stamp with rigorous algorithm.
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 11:31 pm
sbangs
i see what u mean :)
and again i learn
thanks
and again i learn
thanks
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 11:38 pm
anewsome
cstoll wrote :
skyfxl... you don't get it either. If read the 'other way' it should be the EXACT opposite not something different.
What anewsome is describing is that forward or backwards the communication between the timecode signal and the software is consistent in knowing exactly where it should be.
So do you know how to go from your house to the club? Let's say from your house to the club is 20 blocks. And, let's say half way (10 blocks) there you decide to stop and drive backwards for a few blocks (2.2 blocks) - well serato knows that you went back exactly 2.2 block so when you start going forward it knows to pick up at 7.8 blocks and start going forward again. With VDJ depending on how fast you travel backwards VDJ may decide you are at 8 blocks once you start to go forward again and not at 7.8 - hence the skip forward after a fast back spin.
That's the difference of being able to read exact positioning, which also requires a very granular TC stamp with rigorous algorithm.
What anewsome is describing is that forward or backwards the communication between the timecode signal and the software is consistent in knowing exactly where it should be.
So do you know how to go from your house to the club? Let's say from your house to the club is 20 blocks. And, let's say half way (10 blocks) there you decide to stop and drive backwards for a few blocks (2.2 blocks) - well serato knows that you went back exactly 2.2 block so when you start going forward it knows to pick up at 7.8 blocks and start going forward again. With VDJ depending on how fast you travel backwards VDJ may decide you are at 8 blocks once you start to go forward again and not at 7.8 - hence the skip forward after a fast back spin.
That's the difference of being able to read exact positioning, which also requires a very granular TC stamp with rigorous algorithm.
This is what leads me to believe that there will not be reverse postition tracking in VDJ while using the current vinyls. I could be wrong though. If the vinyl has the position information encoded in such a way that the position information can be decoded with reverse movement only, then it should be a software fix to get real absolute mode type tracking. If the timecode position information is impossible to decode in reverse, for whatever reason,.. then get ready for TCV gen 3 in order to implement this feature.
Really though, this could all be moot. I've never heard any developer say that VDJ is working on full forward/backward tcv position tracking. We could all be making a big deal about a feature that there is no planned implementation for currently.
I personally would feel a lot better if one of the staffers said, simply "we are implementing full forward/reverse tcv tracking in next release".
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 11:44 pm
anewsome
skyfxl wrote :
this is binary
timecode singal is coded binary
its basic computer code
it can be read in one direction , by the needle
if its read the otherway it means somthing totaly different
this is binary
timecode singal is coded binary
its basic computer code
it can be read in one direction , by the needle
if its read the otherway it means somthing totaly different
i won't claim to know the details of how vdj time code works. it sounds like a simple sine wave to me, so i really don't know how position is encoded to begin with. but if that's true and it is some kind of sine wave (which could be easily represented by a digital stream of 1 and 0), this would make it difficult to determine where on the record the needle is when moving in reverse only. there could be some kind of stop bits or checksum or whatever between bytes but that would get hairy, since you'd be constantly reading in data, looking for stop bits, flipping the data around, etc. you would read in a checksum or whatever and it would be a checksum for some bits you hadn't even read yet. sounds like a difficult system to me. so i don't know if it's really like that or not.
ssl claims they use a "noisemap", which isn't timecode at all. my guess is, it's some kind of special engineered signal that is made in such a way that the chunks of information have the same exact representation, checksum and stop bit type, whether it's read in forward or reverse,.. it all comes out exactly the same. kinda hard to explain, but this type of information might be on the disk:
0033443300 - STOP - 0022442200 - STOP - 0011441100 ... etc
i have no idea what a noisemap is but my guess is a system like the above one would work since each little identifer would be read exactly the same forward or backward. this is all just guesses though. again, i have no idea what i'm talking about here.
Mensajes Wed 06 Dec 06 @ 11:55 pm
cstoll
If you really want to read Serato's NoiseMap process - Scroll down and start with the first post from AJ --- now watch your mind spin - not the simple sine wave or simple 1's and 0's
That why I mentioned complex algorithm and granular TC stamp...
http://www.scratchlive.net/forum/discussion/?discussion_id=412
That why I mentioned complex algorithm and granular TC stamp...
http://www.scratchlive.net/forum/discussion/?discussion_id=412
Mensajes Thu 07 Dec 06 @ 12:20 am
micha3l
Virtual DJ(Atomix) should step-up with the competition by improving the Time Coded Vinyl feature. The only feature that VDJ can boast against others is the Video Mixing and Seamless looping and the sampler. By Jan. 2007, Serato is adding the seamless looping feature in Scratch Live.
What's the purpose of using Time Coded Vinyls if you can't scratch with it? Sure you can use it to beat match and all that but it's still unstable.
If they could just release patches regularly to their products, that would also help.
The reason why customers are so impatient is that they are losing money from waiting.
If they can't rely on your product, they won't use it.
What's the purpose of using Time Coded Vinyls if you can't scratch with it? Sure you can use it to beat match and all that but it's still unstable.
If they could just release patches regularly to their products, that would also help.
The reason why customers are so impatient is that they are losing money from waiting.
If they can't rely on your product, they won't use it.
Mensajes Thu 07 Dec 06 @ 1:25 am
