the SOUND INSURGENT
@AMAHM, lmao!! I don't use anything, I just download my videos/track, throw em in VDJ and go. Like you said, between a day job, 5 kids and a wife (which I dearly love) they leave my sorry ass little time to prep, lmmfao!!
I don't have any issues after switching to -3 and I did that ages ago.
I've just been told MP3GAIN was actually bad because of how it changes the sound. But yeah your right, this is getting old now, lol!!
I don't have any issues after switching to -3 and I did that ages ago.
I've just been told MP3GAIN was actually bad because of how it changes the sound. But yeah your right, this is getting old now, lol!!
Mensajes Fri 08 Jan 16 @ 8:49 pm
groovindj
Remember when we used to play vinyl? There was no MP3gain then. There was no automatic setting on our mixers that adjusted the gain for us.
No - we just put the track on and listened. We watched the meters on the mixer (sometimes analogue ones that "bounced" and had a latency) and we set our levels.
If the track got louder or quieter (which they did in those days. No loudness wars) then we adjusted accordingly.
.....and yet we didn't get distortion and we didn't blow up our amps and speakers - well I didn't anyway!
Some jobs are better done with real ears, not a software algorithm. :-)
No - we just put the track on and listened. We watched the meters on the mixer (sometimes analogue ones that "bounced" and had a latency) and we set our levels.
If the track got louder or quieter (which they did in those days. No loudness wars) then we adjusted accordingly.
.....and yet we didn't get distortion and we didn't blow up our amps and speakers - well I didn't anyway!
Some jobs are better done with real ears, not a software algorithm. :-)
Mensajes Fri 08 Jan 16 @ 9:00 pm
A Man and His Music
Sorry beatbreaker1, I thought you meant you were using MP3 Gain. I also buy my music and videos and play them. I watch so many guys here that use every new thing that comes out. They are editing this, tweaking that, adjusting this. I'm like "when the puck do you have time to play music". I just checked my settings on my desktop, because that is what I used until a year ago, and I copied to the laptop. My auto gain is set to auto, and 0db is set to default. When I used vinyl, I had a compressor/limiter that I set and forgot. It was more for the knuckleheads that I rented to, that needed it (they had no concept that red meant something). There was a guy on here that wondered why the sound got louder and clipped when playing the same song, at the same time, at the same high level. I had to shake my head. It doesn't even have to be the same song. If you are making a mix, hopefully, you have both basses hitting at the same time, it will increase the signal. Still, it should not over power the limiter. If it does, you need to cut back on the input, or kill the bass on one of the tracks.
Mensajes Fri 08 Jan 16 @ 10:27 pm
blckjck
groovindj wrote :
Remember when we used to play vinyl? There was no MP3gain then. There was no automatic setting on our mixers that adjusted the gain for us.
No - we just put the track on and listened. We watched the meters on the mixer (sometimes analogue ones that "bounced" and had a latency) and we set our levels.
If the track got louder or quieter (which they did in those days. No loudness wars) then we adjusted accordingly.
.....and yet we didn't get distortion and we didn't blow up our amps and speakers - well I didn't anyway!
Some jobs are better done with real ears, not a software algorithm. :-)
No - we just put the track on and listened. We watched the meters on the mixer (sometimes analogue ones that "bounced" and had a latency) and we set our levels.
If the track got louder or quieter (which they did in those days. No loudness wars) then we adjusted accordingly.
.....and yet we didn't get distortion and we didn't blow up our amps and speakers - well I didn't anyway!
Some jobs are better done with real ears, not a software algorithm. :-)
No argument here at all. When I mix CD's, same thing. I skip ahead and find the loud spot, set my level, and go.
The issue is the varying recorded level. There are a lot of recorded tracks that are recorded to "hot". When you play them back on any software or hardware without any gain adjustment, you would wind up overloading the output on the digital soundcard. I agree that some have a little more headroom then others. But, they still clip out. And it's not like the "old days". When the analog gets driven out of its workable range, it distorts. The only clipping you really had to worry about was your amps. When digital gets driven out of it's range, it clips, no distortion. So, not only does it sound bad, but it can damage your equipment, even at lower levels that would normally be safe. It's basically sending a straight tone at that point. If you were to put a tone generator on your analog gear, you could not run it anywhere near the level you could with a musical sound, for the same reason.
Mensajes Fri 08 Jan 16 @ 10:31 pm
Adion
beatbreaker1 wrote :
So programs like MP3GAIN really shouldn't be used??
With mp3gain, either you get clipping at some high dynamic parts, or if anti-clipping is enabled, it will probably reduce the level of the entire track.
With VDJ, you would get the limiter kicking in at these parts, but only if no headroom is available. Creating headroom is a something you can do at any time though (manually lowering the gain, using the zeroDb setting, but also the equalizer or effects can affect the headroom you have)
When using mp3gain this all doesn't matter anymore, since the clipping is already done, but with VDJ this decission to compress the sound is only taken at the final phase.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 9:39 am
TVD UK
Last night i changed from -3dB to -6dB and all my older tracks were prevented from hitting limiter. It would be nice but probably not possible to set this per folder, as -3dB is fine for newer tracks but -6dB is needed for the older stuff
So when this is used when using the MK1 Mc6000 as the mixer, i,m just sending -6dB to my controller where i use my gains to adjust it.
What i don't get is, why do we need to run the controller at say +10db just before the red and not at 0dB in the green if 0dB is the optimum
The only way i can achieve that is by turning my high, mid and low right down while still maintaining the volume but at 0dB not +10dB
So when this is used when using the MK1 Mc6000 as the mixer, i,m just sending -6dB to my controller where i use my gains to adjust it.
What i don't get is, why do we need to run the controller at say +10db just before the red and not at 0dB in the green if 0dB is the optimum
The only way i can achieve that is by turning my high, mid and low right down while still maintaining the volume but at 0dB not +10dB
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 9:53 am
blckjck
paulpa66 wrote :
What i don't get is, why do we need to run the controller at say +10db just before the mred and not at 0dB in the green if 0dB is the optimum
The only way i can achieve that is by turning my high, mid and low right down while still maintaining the volume but at 0dB not +10dB
What i don't get is, why do we need to run the controller at say +10db just before the mred and not at 0dB in the green if 0dB is the optimum
The only way i can achieve that is by turning my high, mid and low right down while still maintaining the volume but at 0dB not +10dB
Who says you need to run the controller that high?
I run my mixer channels at 0 average, the peaks will get into +1 or 2.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 11:08 am
Adion
If you want more headroom, you should leave it at 0dB. If you boost the gain on the mc6000 again, these tracks will again go over the top.
Since I think the MC6000 does the mixing in hardware it would depend on the hardware what happens then. It might be clipped, limited, or send a higher signal to the master output.
Since I think the MC6000 does the mixing in hardware it would depend on the hardware what happens then. It might be clipped, limited, or send a higher signal to the master output.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 11:09 am
TVD UK
blckjck wrote :
Who says you need to run the controller that high?
I run my mixer channels at 0 average, the peaks will get into +1 or 2.
I run my mixer channels at 0 average, the peaks will get into +1 or 2.
Quite a few people on here.
I can't see how you achieve that if you have your high, mid and low at 12 o'clock unless you have your controller gains turned down to about 9 0'clock. Using my MC6000 Mk1 as the mixer i find that impossible
With my channel gains on controller at 11 im running at about +6db/+8dB on mixer when -6dB is set in VDJ
I would need to pull the lows, mids, highs back to achieve this
Setting VDJ to -6db from -3dB makes no difference so far as my controller is concerned. I guess it would if i was using VDJ as my mixer but i'm not running it like that
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 11:11 am
Adion
As long as you have autogain on auto you should notice a difference in output level, even when using deck outputs instead of master output in vdj.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 11:38 am
TVD UK
This is my current config
VDJ auto gain set to auto, -6dB set
My controller mid, high and low set to 12 and channel gain set to 11 with VU (on controller) showing +6dB/+10dB
Which is why this 0dB puzzles me. although we have had this conversation before
VDJ auto gain set to auto, -6dB set
My controller mid, high and low set to 12 and channel gain set to 11 with VU (on controller) showing +6dB/+10dB
Which is why this 0dB puzzles me. although we have had this conversation before
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 11:51 am
kradcliffe
The MC6000 is a hardware mixer, so the output VU display level is dependent on where the master output volume is set. I always have my one around Zero with the odd peak in to the orange. Same with the input from VDJ on the cue level. Also depends whether you have your MC6000 in software or external mixer mode.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 12:04 pm
TVD UK
The master output has no effect on channel vu, only the master which you select with the switch. I can have the master to zero i.e turned down to off but still have channel VU
As mentioned i use the MC6000 for mixing not VDJ. Probably totally different using VDJ as a software mixer though
As mentioned i use the MC6000 for mixing not VDJ. Probably totally different using VDJ as a software mixer though
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 12:07 pm
Adion
The controller doesn't really specify what reference point is used as 0dB though, so it's hard to tell without osciloscope on the output what is actually going on.
Assuming that mixing inside the mc6000 happens digitally, I would leave the gain centered and use the master volume control on the mc6000 to match the output with the range of your speakers/amplifier.
Assuming that mixing inside the mc6000 happens digitally, I would leave the gain centered and use the master volume control on the mc6000 to match the output with the range of your speakers/amplifier.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 12:22 pm
TVD UK
I would have assumed the 0dB on the channel VU was the reference point, otherwise why have it?
If the 0dB reference is not 0dB then it kind of makes life difficult not being able to visually set channel and master gains
I will hook up my MC6000 MK2 later see what i get with that as that uses VDJ as the mixer
If the 0dB reference is not 0dB then it kind of makes life difficult not being able to visually set channel and master gains
I will hook up my MC6000 MK2 later see what i get with that as that uses VDJ as the mixer
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 12:25 pm
groovindj
As I've mentioned before, get yourself some reference audio files. For example, some pink noise recorded at 0dB.
Play that on a deck and make sure that VDJ isn't raising or lowering the gain (set the VDJ gain knob to 0 or turn off autogain), then see what the channel meter on the 6000 reads. Ideally it should be 0dB with the hardware gain knob in the middle.
Play that on a deck and make sure that VDJ isn't raising or lowering the gain (set the VDJ gain knob to 0 or turn off autogain), then see what the channel meter on the 6000 reads. Ideally it should be 0dB with the hardware gain knob in the middle.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 12:39 pm
TVD UK
Would one of these be suitable
http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php
http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 12:47 pm
groovindj
I just downloaded it and checked. It's not at 0dB. It kind of bounces around a bit and peaks at around -2.5dB.
You can use (e.g.) Audacity to generate pink noise...
You can use (e.g.) Audacity to generate pink noise...
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 1:20 pm
TVD UK
ok thanks i,ll try that
What do you set amplitude to in audacity? default 0.8 is that giving 0dB?
It says
All built-in generators (except of course Silence) let you type an amplitude value for the loudness of the generated audio. Permitted values are between 0 (silence) and 1 (the maximum possible volume without clipping), with a default of 0.8.
So is that as good as 0dB
What do you set amplitude to in audacity? default 0.8 is that giving 0dB?
It says
All built-in generators (except of course Silence) let you type an amplitude value for the loudness of the generated audio. Permitted values are between 0 (silence) and 1 (the maximum possible volume without clipping), with a default of 0.8.
So is that as good as 0dB
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 1:29 pm
Adion
I'm sure 0dB will be 0dB, but it doesn't mention what 0dB is.
In digital audio, 0dB is typically defined as the maximum level, so anything above that is typically not possible.
In analog audio, it could be a reference based on the output level (for example 1 Volt output could be defined as 0dB). Even for line level there is no global standard though. (As you can see on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level there are various 'standards' that all define the reference voltage on a different point, even up to 12dB apart from each other!)
When building a VU meter, you have even more choices. You could display the peak waveform detected over some time, but you could also calculate the average power (RMS) over some time and display that.
For each of these choices there's no single 'right' standard.
In digital audio, 0dB is typically defined as the maximum level, so anything above that is typically not possible.
In analog audio, it could be a reference based on the output level (for example 1 Volt output could be defined as 0dB). Even for line level there is no global standard though. (As you can see on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level there are various 'standards' that all define the reference voltage on a different point, even up to 12dB apart from each other!)
When building a VU meter, you have even more choices. You could display the peak waveform detected over some time, but you could also calculate the average power (RMS) over some time and display that.
For each of these choices there's no single 'right' standard.
Mensajes Sat 09 Jan 16 @ 1:36 pm
