John Doe 1x67s
RipProductions wrote :
No offense to anyone out there on this forum...but if you are a "DJ" and believe you should still be paying for music..then I wouldn't consider you a "real DJ"...you don't know the ropes. Sorry if I offended anyone, not my intent. But if you know how the industry really works, there wouldn't be this debate.
YOU...the DJ...are the reason these artists are where they are...you don't HAVE to play their music. Remember that guys...
Once again, I DO NOT condone pirating music...but there's other ways to get free music in this "industry" legally...a real DJ would know that.
YOU...the DJ...are the reason these artists are where they are...you don't HAVE to play their music. Remember that guys...
Once again, I DO NOT condone pirating music...but there's other ways to get free music in this "industry" legally...a real DJ would know that.
I'd say that depends entirely on what kind of DJ one is.
In Finland we have a clear cut between what we call a "bar DJ" and a "club DJ".
A "bar DJ" is a guy who plays the same mainstream TOP 40 stuff that MTV and radio channels spew, where as a "club DJ" is a guy who specializes in one genre and spends a lot of time doing research and finding good tracks that nobody has ever heard before. In other words, the former is more of a human jukebox and the latter is more of an performing artist.
For a "bar DJ" it's relatively easy to get hooked up with PR-reps of some key record labels, producers and what not. This makes sense not only in terms of time and effort, but I also genuinly feel that these guys deserve to get the music for free since they are working as the low-paid marketing drone army for the big record companies who can afford to hand out free copies.
For a "club DJ" 95% of the whole DJ'ing is about research; finding rare tracks that are not yet played out and generally developing an distinct and unique style. For a "club DJ" record pools are an abomination, since the last thing he wants to do is play the same tracks as everyone else. The tracks that "club DJs" use typically come from dozens or even hundreds of small independent labels and artists all over the world. It's really not worth the effort to hassle all of them just for the sake of saving few bucks...or even the pretentious "I'm-such-real-DJ-that-I-get-my-music-for-free" bragging rights.
Hell, sometimes I feel that the effort of dealing with producers and artists who contact ME is already enough...I just can't see myself bothering to hassle some poor guy in Netherlands to get a free track instead of just logging into Beatport and paying 1.50 €. Besides, unlike the big labels, these small indie labels and artists need every penny to keep them in business. Even if I could get free promos from them, I WANT to support them by paying for the music. I feel like I have a symbiotic relationship with these people. They provide me the tools to build my DJ'ing style and in return I provide them money and promotion.
In the mainstream club scene it might seem really fly to parade your connections and free promos, but us old school jocks care more about keeping the UG-scene alive. Just like any art, DJ'ing is a life style and a calling. It should not be thought in terms of money or ego. Even if I necessarily would not have to, I spend considerable amounts on music every year. Yet, I don't feel that anybody ows me anything for the promotion I might have done. It's my money, my choice, and If somebody wants to hear my DJ'ing - that's just a bonus.
PS: We're starting to mix apples and oranges here. This thread was originally about illegal downloads and usage of copyrighted material without permission. Receiving promos from records labels/artists is just as legal and morally acceptable as buying the record. The fact that former option was free to the DJ is somewhat irrelevant.
Mensajes Mon 13 Apr 09 @ 9:30 am
DooYa1
djfilosoff wrote :
You can also write to recording labels & ask to be put on their mailing list, this takes quite some time to achieve, but it is WELL worth it once they do it (took me about 9 years but times are different now than when I did it) Also, if you get your records from a particular store in your town & are loyal eventually SOME will have promo copies behind the counter just waiting to give to certain DJ's that come in the store and it doesn't hurt to smooze alittle too! ;-)I personally know a working DJ who works in San Diego and Los Angeles night clubs and when I asked where he is buying his music from he replied: "I never pay for music". At first I thought: Wow that's just wrong... but then I realized that NOBODY CARES. He didn't say where exactly he was getting music from but is it possible for DJ to compile crazy mp3 collection with thousands of tracks including all the latest hits and fancy remixes legally and for free?
Mensajes Fri 26 Jun 09 @ 11:33 pm
mini reaper
TearEmUp wrote :
Not true my friend, I care. Integrity is the definition of how you behave when no one is looking...
sirkitbreaker wrote :
sad fact is ... in the long run no one cares
Not true my friend, I care. Integrity is the definition of how you behave when no one is looking...
lmao tear..u were definitely in the millitary..i get PREACHED ..integrity every second of my life..jus kuz im a marine..lol..integrity...and courage..to do the right thing when no one is looking and do the right thing kuz its the right thing to do !
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 1:47 am
dj-e-lectric
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
[quote=RipProductions]A "bar DJ" is a guy who plays the same mainstream TOP 40 stuff that MTV and radio channels spew, where as a "club DJ" is a guy who specializes in one genre and spends a lot of time doing research and finding good tracks that nobody has ever heard before. In other words, the former is more of a human jukebox and the latter is more of an performing artist.
Here in America a BAR DJ is one who play in a BAR, a CLUB Dj is one who plays in a CLUB...the style, music genre(s) or skillz have nothing to do with it.....just the debate over what constitutes a BAR and what constitutes a CLUB.
I wish Dj's would "get over themselves" and quit equating someone's talent or choice in style as the definition of a Dj. Put very simply (and correctly) if you perform music to a public audience by means of recorded media you ARE A DJ...period, point blank, no exceptions. This does not mean you are a GOOD Dj, just that you ARE.
If you are PAID to perform as a DJ you are a professional DJ....period, point blank, no exception. Again this does not mean you are a GOOD professional, but you are a professional.
Any other way of looking at it is purely subjective TASTE and OPINION and not FACT.
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 7:21 am
John Doe 1x67s
dj-e-lectric wrote :
Here in America a BAR DJ is one who play in a BAR, a CLUB Dj is one who plays in a CLUB...the style, music genre(s) or skillz have nothing to do with it.....just the debate over what constitutes a BAR and what constitutes a CLUB.
I wish Dj's would "get over themselves" and quit equating someone's talent or choice in style as the definition of a Dj. Put very simply (and correctly) if you perform music to a public audience by means of recorded media you ARE A DJ...period, point blank, no exceptions. This does not mean you are a GOOD Dj, just that you ARE.
If you are PAID to perform as a DJ you are a professional DJ....period, point blank, no exception. Again this does not mean you are a GOOD professional, but you are a professional.
Any other way of looking at it is purely subjective TASTE and OPINION and not FACT.
I wish Dj's would "get over themselves" and quit equating someone's talent or choice in style as the definition of a Dj. Put very simply (and correctly) if you perform music to a public audience by means of recorded media you ARE A DJ...period, point blank, no exceptions. This does not mean you are a GOOD Dj, just that you ARE.
If you are PAID to perform as a DJ you are a professional DJ....period, point blank, no exception. Again this does not mean you are a GOOD professional, but you are a professional.
Any other way of looking at it is purely subjective TASTE and OPINION and not FACT.
If you really have to resurrect an old thread and comment my statement, could you at least bother to read my whole text and not comment some part taken out of context.
I never said anything about putting different types of DJs in any particular "picking order". If I recall correctly, my original writing was about receiving free promo releases from records labels, making connections and supporting small labels. I was about to explain my point to you using really short words and simple sentences, but then I just thought "F*ck it! I can't be bothered. He's not worth it.".
If you haven't understood what I ment by now, I doubt that you ever will - no matter how thoroughly I explain it.
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 8:38 am
dj-e-lectric
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
If you really have to resurrect an old thread and comment my statement, could you at least bother to read my whole text and not comment some part taken out of context.
I never said anything about putting different types of DJs in any particular "picking order". If I recall correctly, my original writing was about receiving free promo releases from records labels, making connections and supporting small labels.
dj-e-lectric wrote :
Here in America a BAR DJ is one who play in a BAR, a CLUB Dj is one who plays in a CLUB...the style, music genre(s) or skillz have nothing to do with it.....just the debate over what constitutes a BAR and what constitutes a CLUB.
I wish Dj's would "get over themselves" and quit equating someone's talent or choice in style as the definition of a Dj. Put very simply (and correctly) if you perform music to a public audience by means of recorded media you ARE A DJ...period, point blank, no exceptions. This does not mean you are a GOOD Dj, just that you ARE.
If you are PAID to perform as a DJ you are a professional DJ....period, point blank, no exception. Again this does not mean you are a GOOD professional, but you are a professional.
Any other way of looking at it is purely subjective TASTE and OPINION and not FACT.
I wish Dj's would "get over themselves" and quit equating someone's talent or choice in style as the definition of a Dj. Put very simply (and correctly) if you perform music to a public audience by means of recorded media you ARE A DJ...period, point blank, no exceptions. This does not mean you are a GOOD Dj, just that you ARE.
If you are PAID to perform as a DJ you are a professional DJ....period, point blank, no exception. Again this does not mean you are a GOOD professional, but you are a professional.
Any other way of looking at it is purely subjective TASTE and OPINION and not FACT.
If you really have to resurrect an old thread and comment my statement, could you at least bother to read my whole text and not comment some part taken out of context.
I never said anything about putting different types of DJs in any particular "picking order". If I recall correctly, my original writing was about receiving free promo releases from records labels, making connections and supporting small labels.
I picked that paragraph from your statement BECAUSE it was out of context with the rest of the post. While the rest of the post was about obtaining product, that starting paragraph sounds like an elitist taking a "shot" at bar Djs by calling them "human jukeboxes" while referring to club Djs as "performing artists".
Just because one plays music that is PREFERRED by the masses (that's mainly why they are hits) and the other likes to spend endelss hours searching for music nobody cares about or will remember in an hour does not make one more of an artist that the other....just more eccentric. Art is in the senses of the beholder and a strong argument can be made that if the senses of millions of beholders prefer something over the senses of the "elitist few" maybe the human jukebox is truly the better artist, at least in the minds of the millions!
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 11:24 am
John Doe 1x67s
dj-e-lectric wrote :
I picked that paragraph from your statement BECAUSE it was out of context with the rest of the post. While the rest of the post was about obtaining product, that starting paragraph sounds like an elitist taking a "shot" at bar Djs by calling them "human jukeboxes" while referring to club Djs as "performing artists".
Just because one plays music that is PREFERRED by the masses (that's mainly why they are hits) and the other likes to spend endelss hours searching for music nobody cares about or will remember in an hour does not make one more of an artist that the other....just more eccentric. Art is in the senses of the beholder and a strong argument can be made that if the senses of millions of beholders prefer something over the senses of the "elitist few" maybe the human jukebox is truly the better artist, at least in the minds of the millions!
Just because one plays music that is PREFERRED by the masses (that's mainly why they are hits) and the other likes to spend endelss hours searching for music nobody cares about or will remember in an hour does not make one more of an artist that the other....just more eccentric. Art is in the senses of the beholder and a strong argument can be made that if the senses of millions of beholders prefer something over the senses of the "elitist few" maybe the human jukebox is truly the better artist, at least in the minds of the millions!
Oh for crying out loud...you just had to take it personally, didn't you? I foolishly expected that any moron could tell that I was using the terms "bar DJ" and "club DJ" as purposfully artificial concepts to make example of different type of DJs. Both are equally valuable as professional entertainers.
The fact that is, that if one happens to be a mainstream-based DJ, one really doesn't do that much research - just follow the charts. Nothing wrong with that, if that's your thing. As for the music being good just because it's popular? Oh please, you got to be kidding me! You really don't seem to have much understanding about the industry or human nature in general. We have a sarcastic proverb in Finland that summarizes it: "Million flies can't be wrong - shit tastes good".
Your statement of "searching for music nobody cares about" could not be any more inaccurate...but I've come to expect such one-eyed nonsense from you already. I've discovered countless of people whose reaction to hearing my sets for the first time is "Whoa, this stuff is great! What is this? Why I don't ever hear this stuff on the radio?". The thing is that people in general are quite lazy and mostly just settles for the stuff mainstream mass media feeds them.
Anyway, I never intended this to become battle of which type of DJing/genre is the best. For a guy who preaches about tolerance of all DJing branches and genres, you really seem to try hard to turn this to a X vs. Z struggle. Or is it just an act?
Just be a man and let it go, tell your ego to STFU for a change.
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 11:49 am
sonido1902
I never noticed how many people download illegal music!....Almost every single person at my job,people every where say...: Just Download it,dont buy it"...im like wow...wut ever..
My Manager yesterday while doing inventory noticed that i had 2 ipods..a 32 gb and a 8 gb..he said sell me one..i said hellz nah..we get along like that while doing inventory..only at inventory when there is only 5 of us at the resturant..any wyas...so he said why...im like because i have alot of music that i need in here and i listen to the new music i get...he said "but you got two"..I said yea but one is already full the 32 gb and the other one is bout half way and im still getting BUYING new music on the regular...he was like "Buying it??" why man you can download it for free"
Thats when i learned that not very many people buy there cds..only the ones that have a passion for it...like singers,rappers,djs[sum not all we got sum fakes too]...people like that are the only people i heard tell me and i see them buy there music...i guess the place is full of piracy...people just dont get it why we prefer to buy the music..they said ur stupid for not getting it free when u want it..im like what ever...
I support the artist.. not the record company...they just care about the money..Like if they really cared bout the artist....
My Manager yesterday while doing inventory noticed that i had 2 ipods..a 32 gb and a 8 gb..he said sell me one..i said hellz nah..we get along like that while doing inventory..only at inventory when there is only 5 of us at the resturant..any wyas...so he said why...im like because i have alot of music that i need in here and i listen to the new music i get...he said "but you got two"..I said yea but one is already full the 32 gb and the other one is bout half way and im still getting BUYING new music on the regular...he was like "Buying it??" why man you can download it for free"
Thats when i learned that not very many people buy there cds..only the ones that have a passion for it...like singers,rappers,djs[sum not all we got sum fakes too]...people like that are the only people i heard tell me and i see them buy there music...i guess the place is full of piracy...people just dont get it why we prefer to buy the music..they said ur stupid for not getting it free when u want it..im like what ever...
I support the artist.. not the record company...they just care about the money..Like if they really cared bout the artist....
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 12:06 pm
dj-e-lectric
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
Oh for crying out loud...you just had to take it personally, didn't you? I foolishly expected that any moron could tell that I was using the terms "bar DJ" and "club DJ" as purposfully artificial concepts to make example of different type of DJs. Both are equally valuable as professional entertainers.
Oh for crying out loud...you just had to take it personally, didn't you? I foolishly expected that any moron could tell that I was using the terms "bar DJ" and "club DJ" as purposfully artificial concepts to make example of different type of DJs. Both are equally valuable as professional entertainers.
See, that was your first mistake as I am not a moron so I couldn't tell.
Not taking it personally at all, for most of my career I have been a "club Dj" by your definition....I also have worked as a "bar Dj" and as a radio Dj (hell I have even done karaoke and weddings because at this point in my life my making the payments on my properties and investments mean more to me that being an "artist" and if that makes me a Dj hor so be it) and in experiencing and performing as all three I have come to not rate one better than or working harder than the other. What I have found is that anybody can make themselves sound different by playing music no one else does...hell that's logical and easy... the true artistry is being a top 40 dj and programming and performing to make your set sound different and more appealing then the other top 40 Djs. To even make it tougher try doing this with your own set night in and night out....to pull that off successfully, that is a true artist.
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
We have a sarcastic proverb in Finland that summarizes it: "Million flies can't be wrong - shit tastes good".
Wow! I hope you don't use flies for your music research too! To flies shit may very well taste good, I can't say as I have never been a fly, but they seem to like it.
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
Your statement of "searching for music nobody cares about" could not be any more inaccurate...but I've come to expect such one-eyed nonsense from you already. I've discovered countless of people whose reaction to hearing my sets for the first time is "Whoa, this stuff is great! What is this? Why I don't ever hear this stuff on the radio?".
"one-eyed nonsense"...that's original, see I wear glasses so i am used to the four eyes thing....but to completely miss three of my eyes is myopic!
That is a ridiculous statement....of course you get that reaction, that is the niche crowd you develop and play for (and good for you if that is your passion)....take that same music to an average top 40 bar and you will get the opposite reaction from most people (at least here in the states). Go to a Chicago cubs game and ask them how many think the Cubs are better than the Cardinals....of course they all will say the Cubs! You are preaching to the choir.
Absolutely there are THOUSANDS of great songs that never see the light of day, the airwaves are limited by time, money, bandwidth, formats, advertiser discretion, public pressure, censorship, etc so of course most good music goes undiscovered. When I was first learning to Dj for a chain called Black Angus I was taught "People don't know what the like, they like what they know"....a very true statement, but whether the "like" is in their mind or in their familiarity to it, it is still what they think they like and to them that is all that matters.
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
Or is it just an act?
Your buttons are just too easy to push....I do admire the passion and conviction of you arguments as always, could have better debates though without the name calling when you can't find a good argument to support some of your points.
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 12:29 pm
rob.mccombe
I can honeslty say i have thousands of music on my external hard drive and i have probaly paid for about a handfull of them.
I use a websites where i can download virtualy anything from and the majority of them are all 320kbs mp3s full releases and for the hard to get remixes i will just pay for them.
Why pay when you can get them for free.
I personally would of used a pirate copy of virtual DJ but i dont like using any software that you have to use a crack for as they are usually less reliable than a genuine version.
I use a websites where i can download virtualy anything from and the majority of them are all 320kbs mp3s full releases and for the hard to get remixes i will just pay for them.
Why pay when you can get them for free.
I personally would of used a pirate copy of virtual DJ but i dont like using any software that you have to use a crack for as they are usually less reliable than a genuine version.
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 1:13 pm
John Doe 1x67s
dj-e-lectric wrote :
See, that was your first mistake as I am not a moron so I couldn't tell.
Not taking it personally at all, for most of my career I have been a "club Dj" by your definition....I also have worked as a "bar Dj" and as a radio Dj (hell I have even done karaoke and weddings because at this point in my life my making the payments on my properties and investments mean more to me that being an "artist" and if that makes me a Dj hor so be it) and in experiencing and performing as all three I have come to not rate one better than or working harder than the other. What I have found is that anybody can make themselves sound different by playing music no one else does...hell that's logical and easy... the true artistry is being a top 40 dj and programming and performing to make your set sound different and more appealing then the other top 40 Djs. To even make it tougher try doing this with your own set night in and night out....to pull that off successfully, that is a true artist.
Not taking it personally at all, for most of my career I have been a "club Dj" by your definition....I also have worked as a "bar Dj" and as a radio Dj (hell I have even done karaoke and weddings because at this point in my life my making the payments on my properties and investments mean more to me that being an "artist" and if that makes me a Dj hor so be it) and in experiencing and performing as all three I have come to not rate one better than or working harder than the other. What I have found is that anybody can make themselves sound different by playing music no one else does...hell that's logical and easy... the true artistry is being a top 40 dj and programming and performing to make your set sound different and more appealing then the other top 40 Djs. To even make it tougher try doing this with your own set night in and night out....to pull that off successfully, that is a true artist.
*SIGH* So just letting it go wasn't an option, eh?
I don't know how many times and in how many different ways I have to say that I wasn't dissing your brach of DJing. If you can't accept it, whatever. I'm starting to see the same pattern like in the Traktor vs. Virtual DJ thread. You're trying so desperately to prove something that it almost looks like you're trying to convince yourself more than others.
dj-e-lectric wrote :
Wow! I hope you don't use flies for your music research too! To flies shit may very well taste good, I can't say as I have never been a fly, but they seem to like it.
dj-e-lectric wrote :
"one-eyed nonsense"...that's original, see I wear glasses so i am used to the four eyes thing....but to completely miss three of my eyes is myopic!
Erm, that was so completely random that I can't even begin to guess what you're trying to say. Apparently some colossal misunderstanding of the proverb or a bad case of zaphodism (=playing really dumb to hide the fact that you're dumb, Hitchhiker's Guide To Galaxy, Douglas Adams).
dj-e-lectric wrote :
That is a ridiculous statement....of course you get that reaction, that is the niche crowd you develop and play for (and good for you if that is your passion)....take that same music to an average top 40 bar and you will get the opposite reaction from most people (at least here in the states). Go to a Chicago cubs game and ask them how many think the Cubs are better than the Cardinals....of course they all will say the Cubs! You are preaching to the choir.
*shakes head in desperation*
Is it really too much to ask that you would even once read what I wrote? I explicitly said that these are NOT the niche crowd. These are the people who by accident come in contact with the underground music for the first time.
dj-e-lectric wrote :
Your buttons are just too easy to push....I do admire the passion and conviction of you arguments as always, could have better debates though without the name calling when you can't find a good argument to support some of your points.
Buttons easy to push? Yeah right, you wish! You're confusing indifference with anger, my friend :D
Don't flatter yourself by thinking that you're able to provoke any other reaction than pitty and mild amusement :D
Besides, there more I read your writings, the more I'm starting to think you couldn't spot a good argument even if one jumped up and bit you in the ass. But hey, do whatever works for you. When you see an opinion that clashes with your own just close your eyes, put your fingers to your ears and yell NANANANANANANA really loud until the opponent eventually gets bored. You had the last say, you won. Happy now?
Mensajes Sat 27 Jun 09 @ 4:36 pm
dj-e-lectric
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
You had the last say, you won. Happy now?
It's not about winning or losing, it is exploring the spirit of the debate on a furom designed for the free exchange of ideas, be they similar or opposing....and you are a worthy respondant
Mensajes Sun 28 Jun 09 @ 6:11 am