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Forum: VirtualDJ Technical Support

Tema: XDJ-XZ Deck 1 & 2 sync issue
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
After the last few VDJ updates I've noticed that Deck 1 and Deck 2 no longer sync properly on my Pioneer XDJ-XZ. To put it in perspective: set your Tempo slider to 0 and play the same song on both decks, perfectly align your waveforms and you get a delay between the two decks. I have to slightly nudge Deck 1 back so it sounds perfectly in sync, at which point the waveforms are no longer aligned. Same happens when you use instant doubles feature. I have 3-4 shows weekly and I've been using XDJ-XZ for almost 2 years and never experienced this issue. The only issue I've had since day one was: every time I switch Effects with a rotary knob on my XDJ-XZ they would not quantize even with the FX Quantize button on. I always have press the arrows on XZ (Ex. Echo: set 1 or 1/2 beat) so it's quantized again, otherwise on XZ display it's grayed out. I've learned how to live with it even though it's extremely annoying, but the waveform sync issue is way more important. Sometimes I scratch and quickly switch my tracks every 30 seconds or so as part of my performance at which point I highly rely on waveforms display. VDJ please fix this ASAP. I've been a VDJ user for over a decade and always bumped heads with Serato and Rekordbox users. I can't really defend you on this one. Before you guys tell me to update the firmware, software be advised that I also have Pioneer DDJ-400, Rev-1, DDJ-1000 SRT and it only happens with XDJ-XZ. I've tried my buddy's XZ and we've tried updating firmware from ver 1.22 to 1.23, same problem persists. It does not happen when I use Rekordbox or Serato, so it's clearly a VDJ issue. Waiting on your feedback... Thanks
 

Mensajes Tue 24 May 22 @ 10:26 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
Still no response from VDJ team...
 

Mensajes Thu 26 May 22 @ 1:45 am
djdadPRO InfinityDevelopment ManagerMember since 2005
Unfortunately, i cant reproduce any of your issues.

I have the same Track loaded on both Decks, play, press SYNC, they get aligned and synced. Same if i clone.
Can you provide your steps in more details ? Do you use SYNC or try to sync by ear or other way ? How exactly can you tell that Decks are not synced ? By looking at the waveforms on the XDJ-XZ display ? Is there a difference if you check the ones on the VDJ skin ? Can you tell by ear ?

The Effects on the XDJ-XZ are hardware and VirtualDJ passes BPM and Beat-grid information to the firmware for the Effects to be quantized.
Cant reproduce what you say about the FX going gray ?? Can you provide your steps ?
If you have Echo set to 1 beat and use BEAT <, you go through 3/4 beats , before going to 1/2. Maybe it's there where it goes off ? But still, nothing is grayed out here.
 

Mensajes Thu 26 May 22 @ 6:05 am
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
Here is the unlisted YouTube video representing the Sync problem with XDJ-XZ. In order for two tracks to sound perfectly in sync I have to nudge Deck 1 jog wheel forward about 1/4 of a turn. At that point the waveforms on XDJ-XZ and VDJ are no longer perfectly aligned.
 

Mensajes Thu 26 May 22 @ 8:10 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
And here is unlisted YouTube video representing the FX Quantization problem on PioneerDJ XDJ-XZ. Problem occurs every time FX are switched.
 

Mensajes Thu 26 May 22 @ 8:22 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
Regarding the sync issue, you are using pitchQuality 2 or higher?
 

Mensajes Fri 27 May 22 @ 4:31 pm
djdadPRO InfinityDevelopment ManagerMember since 2005
Regarding the grayed Beat, i get the same behavior in both Rekordbox and Serato, so most likely it's a firmware/hardware issue.
 

Mensajes Fri 27 May 22 @ 7:12 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
Adion wrote :
Regarding the sync issue, you are using pitchQuality 2 or higher?


I actually did raise the pitch quality to either 2 or 3. I would have to double check. Would that affect the Sync?
 

Mensajes Fri 10 Jun 22 @ 2:14 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
djdad wrote :
Regarding the grayed Beat, i get the same behavior in both Rekordbox and Serato, so most likely it's a firmware/hardware issue.


It must be happening only with XDJ-XZ because my DDJ-1000 controller has all the FX quantized without any issues.
 

Mensajes Fri 10 Jun 22 @ 2:18 pm
DDJ-1000 works in a completely different way.
The entire effects section is software controlled/operated for channels that are set to digital sources (USB A/B)
 

Mensajes Sun 12 Jun 22 @ 12:52 am
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
If DDJ-1000 FX are software controlled how they work with other sources (CDJ) in standalone mode? Besides, when I enable FX on DDJ-1000 I don't see any FX buttons enabled in VDJ. I may be interpreting it incorrectly. The bottom line IS THERE A FIX FOR IT? XDJ-XZ became very popular amongst DJ community and more units are being sold and pre-ordered from Pioneer DJ daily. I'm getting a habit of bringing my DDJ-1000 everywhere but I would like to go back to my XDJ-XZ at some point.
 

Mensajes Thu 23 Jun 22 @ 1:26 pm
I can't say for XDJ-XZ. I don't have the unit. But for DDJ-1000 it has been said many times allready:
It uses on board effects for analog sources and software effects for digital sources. And there's nothing you can do to change that. It's how the device firmware is programmed to operate.
Even with Rekordbox DJ, the effects for digital (USB) channels are provided by software, while the effects for analog inputs are provided by the device.

Some more technical stuff:
The original firmware of the device (DDJ-1000) had FX send/return channels on the USB bus.
That was in order to use software effects even for analog inputs as soon as a DJ software was connected to the board. However that implementation had some issues.
We don't know what issues exactly. We only know that it was possible from time to time that send/return channels would not operate.
Anyway Pioneer in order to fix that issue updated the firmware and removed FX send/return channels from USB audio bus. Also now the firmware is set so that hardware effects are always used for analog inputs regardless if a DJ software is connected or not.
To make it even more strange, switching the FX selector to an analog source won't automatically switch the FX unit to hardware when a DJ software is connected. Instead the firmware must also sense audio signal present on that channel.
And this becomes even more strange when you set the FX unit on the "MASTER" channel.

Anyway.. DDJ-1000 is a different controller than XDJ-XZ and honestly after working with litteraly hundreds of controllers the two most valuable advices I can give you are:
1) Don't expect one controller to behave internally the same way as another. Even if it's a MKII model (like DDJ-SZ vs DDJ-SZ2)
2) Pioneer XDJ series is a mediocre series of gear.
XDJ-1000 = A stripped down version of CDJ-2000NXS plagued with several issues even as a stand alone device.
XDJ-SX = A mediocre stand alone controller with MIDI capabilities that wouldn't excel neither as a stand alone device or as a MIDI controller.
I can keep on with almost all the products of this series.
That's not an "official" statement of course, rather than a personal opinion, but if you want to get the most out of your gear with Pioneer either get CDJ or DDJ series. XDJ series for Pioneer is something like eXperimental series. Which means that all the gear in this series have their own twirks.

PS: I do understand your frustration about XDJ-XZ. I'm just not the right person to give you more help about it since I don't have nor I ever used the device.
 

Mensajes Thu 23 Jun 22 @ 2:49 pm
Out of curiocity:
1) Do you have the ASIO drivers installed ?
2) If yes, do you have the correct audio setup (that uses the ASIO drivers and not WASAPI drivers)
3) With VirtualDJ closed, open windows sound panel and:
A) Make sure that windows are not using XDJ-XZ as their default playback device
B) Go to the XDJ-XZ sound interface properties and disable the option "Allow programs to take exclusive access of this device"
C) Disable ALL windows sound enhancements for this sound device.

 

Mensajes Thu 23 Jun 22 @ 3:00 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
PhantomDeejay wrote :
I can't say for XDJ-XZ. I don't have the unit. But for DDJ-1000 it has been said many times allready:
It uses on board effects for analog sources and software effects for digital sources. And there's nothing you can do to change that. It's how the device firmware is programmed to operate.
Even with Rekordbox DJ, the effects for digital (USB) channels are provided by software, while the effects for analog inputs are provided by the device.

Some more technical stuff:
The original firmware of the device (DDJ-1000) had FX send/return channels on the USB bus.
That was in order to use software effects even for analog inputs as soon as a DJ software was connected to the board. However that implementation had some issues.
We don't know what issues exactly. We only know that it was possible from time to time that send/return channels would not operate.
Anyway Pioneer in order to fix that issue updated the firmware and removed FX send/return channels from USB audio bus. Also now the firmware is set so that hardware effects are always used for analog inputs regardless if a DJ software is connected or not.
To make it even more strange, switching the FX selector to an analog source won't automatically switch the FX unit to hardware when a DJ software is connected. Instead the firmware must also sense audio signal present on that channel.
And this becomes even more strange when you set the FX unit on the "MASTER" channel.

Anyway.. DDJ-1000 is a different controller than XDJ-XZ and honestly after working with litteraly hundreds of controllers the two most valuable advices I can give you are:
1) Don't expect one controller to behave internally the same way as another. Even if it's a MKII model (like DDJ-SZ vs DDJ-SZ2)
2) Pioneer XDJ series is a mediocre series of gear.
XDJ-1000 = A stripped down version of CDJ-2000NXS plagued with several issues even as a stand alone device.
XDJ-SX = A mediocre stand alone controller with MIDI capabilities that wouldn't excel neither as a stand alone device or as a MIDI controller.
I can keep on with almost all the products of this series.
That's not an "official" statement of course, rather than a personal opinion, but if you want to get the most out of your gear with Pioneer either get CDJ or DDJ series. XDJ series for Pioneer is something like eXperimental series. Which means that all the gear in this series have their own twirks.

PS: I do understand your frustration about XDJ-XZ. I'm just not the right person to give you more help about it since I don't have nor I ever used the device.


I own a pair of CDJ-3000s with DJM-900NSX2 mixer and also a pair of Rane 12's with Pioneer S11 mixer. Both setups perform flawlessly when I hit Instant Doubles. So do cheap DDJ-400, DDJ-Rev 1, DDJ-800 and higher end DDJ-Rev7. XDJ-XZ is the only deck I'm having issues with (not just mine).
 

Mensajes Thu 23 Jun 22 @ 10:03 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
 

Mensajes Thu 23 Jun 22 @ 11:21 pm
As I said, I do understand your issue.
I don't have the controller so I can't really test what's the cause of your issue.
Technically it appears that channels 1+2 from the USB audio bus have some delay (since you need to speedup deck 1 to bring it in sync with deck 2)
This can be a drivers issue, a computer specific issue, a windows sound settings issue, or anything in between.
It's clearly not a direct VirtualDJ issue (as VirtualDJ as you said works fine with all other controllers)

I asked you a couple of things above.
The reason is that I'm trying to understand if there's a chance something introduces a delay on channels 1+2 but not on others.
Theoretically, if you DO use the ASIO drivers then Windows stop taking part into the communication between VirtualDJ and the soundcard of the device.
If you DON'T use the ASIO drivers then there's a chance Windows introduce a delay because they try to apply "enhancements" on your sound (and they usually do so only on chans 1+2 of sound interfaces which are considered the "main" channels)

So, take a moment to check and answer my questions above. I'm trying to help here.
 

Mensajes Fri 24 Jun 22 @ 1:57 pm
oeuro5PRO InfinityMember since 2006
PhantomDeejay wrote :
As I said, I do understand your issue.
I don't have the controller so I can't really test what's the cause of your issue.
Technically it appears that channels 1+2 from the USB audio bus have some delay (since you need to speedup deck 1 to bring it in sync with deck 2)
This can be a drivers issue, a computer specific issue, a windows sound settings issue, or anything in between.
It's clearly not a direct VirtualDJ issue (as VirtualDJ as you said works fine with all other controllers)

I asked you a couple of things above.
The reason is that I'm trying to understand if there's a chance something introduces a delay on channels 1+2 but not on others.
Theoretically, if you DO use the ASIO drivers then Windows stop taking part into the communication between VirtualDJ and the soundcard of the device.
If you DON'T use the ASIO drivers then there's a chance Windows introduce a delay because they try to apply "enhancements" on your sound (and they usually do so only on chans 1+2 of sound interfaces which are considered the "main" channels)

So, take a moment to check and answer my questions above. I'm trying to help here.


Got first 3 settings correctly. I will check on the rest tonight and will let you know. Thank you
 

Mensajes Fri 24 Jun 22 @ 3:08 pm